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Old 06-23-2012, 12:36 AM   #101
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This discussion is drifting into the topic that had great discussion in this thread:
Why doctors die differently

The articles in the first and second post are great discussions on the extremely tough topic of quality of life vs quantity of life when dealing with terminal or very likely terminal illnesses.
I don't think I ever read this thread. It does ring a very loud bell. One of our best friends died of cancer a couple of years ago. She was a doctor (GP). After diagnosis, she did the usuall things: surgery, radiation and then chemo (or chemo then radiation). Then one night we were invited to their house, they also invited another 4 friends. We had a nice supper and then she told us "nothing is working, treatments have stopped, nature will take its course". She lasted 2 months at home and 3 in palliative care (yes, that was free up here).

After the funeral, her sister, an oncolologist, told me that she (the sister) could have and might have had to give her a couple of extra months of agony. She told me a morbid (but with underlying truth) joke.

Why do coffins have nails?
To stop the oncologists from doing more chemo.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:18 AM   #102
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Why do coffins have nails?
To stop the oncologists from doing more chemo.


Sad but no doubt true.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:52 AM   #103
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There is no such thing as a loan to family....
Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:53 AM   #104
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Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.
Time for a DNA test. Sounds suspicious.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #105
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Time for a DNA test. Sounds suspicious.
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:01 PM   #106
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Boy, am I glad I live in Europe. A relative in a similar situation would get >90% of the care that the American lady is getting here (I doubt if all the bells and whistles of the US system add more than a couple of weeks at the back end to the life of a cancer sufferer, compared to, say, France or Italy), and nobody would have to make these awful moral choices.
I'm glad my mum lives in Europe too. No worries about paying for health care with the NHS. It's not perfect, but it's so much better than the system and situation the OP's MIL is dealing with..
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:34 PM   #107
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I'm glad my mum lives in Europe too. No worries about paying for health care with the NHS. It's not perfect, but it's so much better than the system and situation the OP's MIL is dealing with..
I think the major difference between many European countries and the U.S. is that they take the money away from you before you can piss it away on other stuff.

Now we're finding out those countries cannot afford the co-pays either.
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:54 PM   #108
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Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.
I generally agree that loaning money to friends and family is to be avoided at all cost, and an assumption be made that it is not likely to be repaid. However, one of our investments was a loan to our very responsible then 32 year old son. I'm holding a mortgage. I asked what was the best interest rate he could get, and I looked at best long term bond I could get. We split the two. No closing costs. Started out at 5.0%; when rates slumped, I changed it to 4% since he could have legitimately gone out and refinanced at that (well, yes, and paid closing costs). So I just did it. At 4%, with the mortgage on his property representing about 60% of fair value, and him with a great career, it truly is one of our best investments in our portfolio. We joke about the Bank of _____ (our last name). So I wouldn't dismiss arms length, codified and secured loans. Its worked out great for him and us.
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:27 PM   #109
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I generally agree that loaning money to friends and family is to be avoided at all cost, and an assumption be made that it is not likely to be repaid. However, one of our investments was a loan to our very responsible then 32 year old son. I'm holding a mortgage.
In all fairness, a secured mortgage is not the kind of "friends and family" loan that most people are talking about. On the other hand, would you foreclose on your son :-)?
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:37 PM   #110
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Count me as one who would be very reluctant to provide financial help to relatives who are financially irresponsible.

But, but, but this is for medical reasons! Even if the OP's MIL smokes and has been causing her own financial situation, when it comes to the matter of life and death, the OP would not want this to become a problem in his marriage. For practical reasons, helping with that copay is not that expensive, considering what the tension with his wife might cause.

Regardless of whether the immediate treatment will bring about the desired result, if the MIL does not get this initial treatment, she would surely die and the OP marriage may not survive the tormenting question of "What if?" in his wife's mind.
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:55 PM   #111
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In all fairness, a secured mortgage is not the kind of "friends and family" loan that most people are talking about. On the other hand, would you foreclose on your son :-)?
Heck yes! (although I can't imagine the circumstances). But I'd certainly agree that a secured mortgage is outside the realm of what most folks are talking about.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:04 PM   #112
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My mom was diagnosed with small cell lung cancer, which was terminal, but I was able to get a medigap policy for her after the diagnosis, even though it was a pre-existing condition. Even though she was terminal, she opted for Chemo and radiation to prolong her time. It cost around $150.00 a month and it pretty much covered whatever Medicare didn't, except for the initial medicare deductible that had to be met. You might want to check into this.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:09 PM   #113
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Helping the helpless is one thing, helping the clueless is another and helping those who just don't give a rat's ass is all together different. Your call, follow your heart and common sense.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:37 PM   #114
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Helping the helpless is one thing, helping the clueless is another and helping those who just don't give a rat's ass is all together different. Your call, follow your heart and common sense.
Well said...
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:16 PM   #115
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My two cents:

If I wasn't planning on retiring for ten more years, I'd "bite the bullet" and spend the 5k. So much can happen in ten years and to worry about how spending 5k will impact me ten years from now might be a lot of worrying about nothing.

Good luck in your decision.
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:08 PM   #116
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I'm lucky to have mom I have. She's 81 and has been recently diagnosed with cancer. Surgery is this Monday. Her type of cancer (uterine) has a high cure rate so we're hopefull.

Mom is 81 and has excellent insurance plus money in the bank to pay for all things not covered. Her one request to me is to take her back and forth to the hospital and let them know I can care for her at home after surgery so her stay there will be as brief as possible.

She lives close by so this is not a burden. Not at all. Mom has been most generous to the entire family in every way. You can't pick your relatives but if you could, I'd choose her any day.

I feel very bad for many who are struggling with the issues described in this thread. I know it must be deeply painful in addition to the financial burden.

Peace.
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:09 PM   #117
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Not sure I agree. I have loaned money to DD a couple times over the past few years where she didn't want to liquidate some investments. She paid me back and things worked out fine.
Well, I said it often isn't repaid, not never. What I was getting at is that you have to be willing to call it a gift if it isn't repaid and you want a cordial relationship with that person.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:44 PM   #118
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Well, I said it often isn't repaid, not never. What I was getting at is that you have to be willing to call it a gift if it isn't repaid and you want a cordial relationship with that person.
I would agree with you on that.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:48 AM   #119
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Helping the helpless is one thing, helping the clueless is another and helping those who just don't give a rat's ass is all together different. Your call, follow your heart and common sense.

This is what I call the difference in being Christian and being stupid.
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:21 AM   #120
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This is what I call the difference in being Christian and being stupid.
I'd call it the difference between being Christian and un-Christian.
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