|
|
01-31-2017, 08:07 PM
|
#1
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 483
|
Municipal Bonds
I remember reading here at one time a recommendation for the best book on Municipal Bonds. I will soon be in RMD time and would like to research these. Any reccos? Thanks
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
01-31-2017, 08:14 PM
|
#2
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
"The Handbook of Municipal Bonds" edited by Frank Fabozzi. Probably MBA level material, but if you can understand it you will need no other book.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
01-31-2017, 11:13 PM
|
#3
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 353
|
I got about 542K in individual muni bonds and not own more then 3 of the same bond. my TWO basic requirements, AA rated or better and INSURED. I am getting around 4.4% return of around 23k a year.
build a bond ladder with different maturity dates
|
|
|
02-02-2017, 06:18 AM
|
#4
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
" Probably MBA level material,
|
So pretty simple then.......seriously even CFA level is only tough because of the volume of the material.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”
Current AA: 75% Equity Funds / 15% Bonds / 5% Stable Value /2% Cash / 3% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
|
|
|
02-02-2017, 07:50 AM
|
#5
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Les Bois
Posts: 5,761
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun
So pretty simple then.......seriously even CFA level is only tough because of the volume of the material.
|
I had to read most of Fabozzi's Handbook of Fixed Income Securities for an exam - not that bad
It covered muni bonds.
Go for it - I have a nice muni bond portfolio myself. Most have 5% coupons.
__________________
You can't be a retirement plan actuary without a retirement plan, otherwise you lose all credibility...
|
|
|
02-02-2017, 09:32 AM
|
#6
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun
So pretty simple then.......seriously even CFA level is only tough because of the volume of the material.
|
I wouldn't say the material is that hard, but "MBA level" to me means that the material presupposes that you have a fairly good grasp of fixed income fundamentals/finance. If you do not understand duration, convexity, basic financial statement analysis, etc. you will have a tough time.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
02-07-2017, 10:16 AM
|
#7
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 483
|
Thanks for the great reccos
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 09:27 AM
|
#8
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,304
|
I decided to add to this thread rather than starting a new one......
I guess I need to see if they have a Muni Bonds for Dummies book. I am headed to the library later today.
I bought my first muni bond from a local broker that called me and I am trying to get more comfortable with my purchase and this broker. I've been studying the bond tools at Fidelity and I am curious why the bond I purchased does not show up on any searches but similar bonds from the same agency do show up (with different maturities and coupons). If I do a CUSIP search, it comes right up and matches the details provided by the broker.
I would be more comfortable with an outfit like Fidelity or Zion Direct, but it seems like I would not have been able to find this bond if I did not hear from this broker. What other resources are available to find bonds that meet my needs?
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 09:50 AM
|
#9
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,971
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash
I decided to add to this thread rather than starting a new one......
I guess I need to see if they have a Muni Bonds for Dummies book. I am headed to the library later today.
I bought my first muni bond from a local broker that called me and I am trying to get more comfortable with my purchase and this broker. I've been studying the bond tools at Fidelity and I am curious why the bond I purchased does not show up on any searches but similar bonds from the same agency do show up (with different maturities and coupons). If I do a CUSIP search, it comes right up and matches the details provided by the broker.
I would be more comfortable with an outfit like Fidelity or Zion Direct, but it seems like I would not have been able to find this bond if I did not hear from this broker. What other resources are available to find bonds that meet my needs?
|
Does the bond the broker sold you provide anything unique? I guess what I am getting at is so what if you can't find it, are there other bonds that you can find that could have provided equal value? Keep in mind Fidelity charges a $1 to buy a bond. Not sure what your broker charged.
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 09:57 AM
|
#10
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 2,736
|
I have FTABX in our taxable account instead of individual muni bonds. I use it in combination with a short CD ladder, for the ~10% of NW cash we keep to avoid selling equities during a downturn. I've used FTABX lately as our CD's have matured, chasing yield a bit.
When I look at it's performance versus the return on a ladder of similar individual muni bonds, it's closely equivalent. I know that a bond fund fluctuates, whereas holding individual bonds to maturity guarantees that particular bond's return. But, a bond fund is also more liquid; which seems to fit our purpose, described above.
Am I missing something by not purchasing individual muni bonds?
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
100% x 10% > 10% x 100%
Small pensions & SS cover essentials
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 10:33 AM
|
#11
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,304
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by COcheesehead
Does the bond the broker sold you provide anything unique? I guess what I am getting at is so what if you can't find it, are there other bonds that you can find that could have provided equal value? Keep in mind Fidelity charges a $1 to buy a bond. Not sure what your broker charged.
|
This bond seems to have much better yield compared to similar rated bonds with similar characteristics, but that's why I need to learn more about what I'm looking at in the bond tables. I sure don't want to ignite the individual bond vs. fund debate.......I'm using a fund for the lower ladder rungs.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 10:37 AM
|
#12
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 313
|
I've bought some bond books in the past ("The Bond Bible", some book about retiring entirely on bonds) and looked over the individual municipal bonds available at Vanguard, but never made a purchase. Each muni bond has a unique contract and terms, and I'd rather not deal with the complexity - but this could also reflect a poor online interface.
So I stick with tax-exempt bond funds and ETFs. My current favorite is Vanguard Tax-Exempt ETF ("VTEB") with a 0.12% expense ratio (Fidelity's FTABX is 0.25% annual fee).
I think those picking a fund are giving up on saving money by buying individual bonds themselves.
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 10:58 AM
|
#13
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,971
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverThinkMuch
I've bought some bond books in the past ("The Bond Bible", some book about retiring entirely on bonds) and looked over the individual municipal bonds available at Vanguard, but never made a purchase. Each muni bond has a unique contract and terms, and I'd rather not deal with the complexity - but this could also reflect a poor online interface.
So I stick with tax-exempt bond funds and ETFs. My current favorite is Vanguard Tax-Exempt ETF ("VTEB") with a 0.12% expense ratio (Fidelity's FTABX is 0.25% annual fee).
I think those picking a fund are giving up on saving money by buying individual bonds themselves.
|
VTEB yields 1.66% whereas FTABX yields 2.57%. That is a pretty big difference for saving just a tad on expenses.
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 12:36 PM
|
#14
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash
This bond seems to have much better yield compared to similar rated bonds with similar characteristics, but that's why I need to learn more about what I'm looking at in the bond tables. I sure don't want to ignite the individual bond vs. fund debate.......I'm using a fund for the lower ladder rungs.
|
Next time make sure you do your due diligence before you buy, not after. There are lots of reasons yield could be higher:
- Illiquidity
- maturity difference
- lower in the pecking order to get paid
- funky structure (some munis are weird to the extreme)
- callable vs. non-callable
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 04:20 PM
|
#15
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,304
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Next time make sure you do your due diligence before you buy, not after. There are lots of reasons yield could be higher:
- Illiquidity
- maturity difference
- lower in the pecking order to get paid
- funky structure (some munis are weird to the extreme)
- callable vs. non-callable
|
You're correct, of course and I did attempt to check as many of these boxes as my limited experience would allow. I learned a lot in the process. I guess it's a flaw in my investing style that I have to dip a toe in the water and that energizes me to do a deep dive. I went to the library today but I could not find the book you suggested (or anything similar). I submitted a request to borrow a similar manual from another branch. I got to explore our brand new high style library, too!
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 04:25 PM
|
#16
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 2,736
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huston55
I have FTABX in our taxable account instead of individual muni bonds. I use it in combination with a short CD ladder, for the ~10% of NW cash we keep to avoid selling equities during a downturn. I've used FTABX lately as our CD's have matured, chasing yield a bit.
When I look at it's performance versus the return on a ladder of similar individual muni bonds, it's closely equivalent. I know that a bond fund fluctuates, whereas holding individual bonds to maturity guarantees that particular bond's return. But, a bond fund is also more liquid; which seems to fit our purpose, described above.
Am I missing something by not purchasing individual muni bonds?
|
Brewer (or others with detailed bond knowledge) - Would appreciate any advice you might have here.
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
100% x 10% > 10% x 100%
Small pensions & SS cover essentials
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 05:15 PM
|
#17
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,304
|
Municipal Bonds
Huston
FWIW I have gone with no bond allocation for quite a awhile. I used CD's for my bond allocation. Last year I bought SMDMX, Fido's intermediate term fund for my state. I plan to use it for near term needs and now I'm looking at individual munis for the longer term.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
02-15-2017, 06:27 PM
|
#18
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huston55
Brewer (or others with detailed bond knowledge) - Would appreciate any advice you might have here.
|
A pile of bonds in a fund is pretty much the same as bonds directly held.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
|
|
|
02-16-2017, 04:02 PM
|
#19
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,304
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash
You're correct, of course and I did attempt to check as many of these boxes as my limited experience would allow. I learned a lot in the process. I guess it's a flaw in my investing style that I have to dip a toe in the water and that energizes me to do a deep dive. I went to the library today but I could not find the book you suggested (or anything similar). I submitted a request to borrow a similar manual from another branch. I got to explore our brand new high style library, too!
|
I learned that POS doesn't stand for what I thought it did...it's Preliminary Offering Statement, but I guess the meaning could be the same.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
02-18-2017, 06:45 AM
|
#20
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,304
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huston55
I have FTABX in our taxable account instead of individual muni bonds. I use it in combination with a short CD ladder, for the ~10% of NW cash we keep to avoid selling equities during a downturn. I've used FTABX lately as our CD's have matured, chasing yield a bit.
When I look at it's performance versus the return on a ladder of similar individual muni bonds, it's closely equivalent. I know that a bond fund fluctuates, whereas holding individual bonds to maturity guarantees that particular bond's return. But, a bond fund is also more liquid; which seems to fit our purpose, described above.
Am I missing something by not purchasing individual muni bonds?
|
I believe the tax free status is generally limited to residents of the state issuing the bond. If using FTABX or another multi-state muni bond fund, I presume the fund company provides a table showing the composition of the fund. Is that correct?
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|