Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-16-2015, 06:33 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Ready's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,823
I know it sounds strange, but I'm looking forward to the visit. I enjoy meeting new people and discussing things. I'm one of those people who actually enjoys negotiating with car salespeople. I think I enjoy the negotiation more than I enjoy actually taking delivery of the car. And I'm pretty good about asking open ended questions that allow people to demonstrate to me whether they know what they are talking about or not.

I know what my options are for fixed income investments. So he's going to have to demonstrate to me how his solutions are better than what I currently have. And I'm happy to give him the opportunity to do so. But I'm not easily sold, so it will be up to him to determine how hard he wants to make a sale.

I suspect he will just thank me for his time and move on if I don't immediately jump at what he has to offer. We'll see.
__________________

__________________
Ready is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-16-2015, 06:34 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Ready's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
It sounds like from the estate thread you started re structuring trusts in a way that would save you hundreds of thousands in taxes that you are a pretty high net worth kinda guy. I bet the rep has already checked out your financials and will present a product that won't cost much in fees and that he won't make too much on commission so it will be very attractive as as the first stepping stone to getting all of your $$ as an account. Perhaps you can tell him you need to run any offering past your financial advisors: Early, Retirement, Dotcom.
Interesting thought, but where would someone go to find out how much I'm worth? I'm not a public figure that anyone would care to track. Is my financial information that readily available? I suppose he could make some assumptions by looking up the value of my home, but is there any way to dig beyond that?
__________________

__________________
Ready is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2015, 06:52 PM   #43
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready View Post
he's going to have to demonstrate to me how his solutions are better than what I currently have.
Insurance salesmen use all of the same lies and red herring arguments. Their favorite is to ignore diversification into bonds. They'll talk about stocks in 2008, never mentioning that if you had a low risk portfolio of only 33% stocks they you were in plus territory for the year 2008. Their last line of defense is to say "annuities are guaranteed -- bonds and stocks aren't". You can counter that by saying "never bear too much risk or bear TOO LITTLE risk". Bear too little risk and it will cost you a LOT of money after 10, 20 years or more. Then they'll talk about "the bond bubble". But bonds and stocks balance each other out. Money has to go somewhere. If bonds fall then money will tend to move more to stocks. When stocks fall money will run to bonds. That's why you own both. History says that a balanced portfolio will protect you from bond or stock declines.
They also love to be ambiguous about the word "return" when referring to interest payment rate. Ask them about return on investment.
__________________
ETFs_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2015, 07:37 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accidental Retiree View Post
I was thinking Kirby vacuums.
They are the worst. I finally made up a story that we had to leave for a meeting to get the guy out of the house.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2015, 07:50 PM   #45
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lakewood90712's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,316
To Ready, If you must go through, after all the advise to the contrary, change the meeting place to a Starbucks. Don't let him into your home, and don't meet at his office. those two places are where they are most comfortable.
__________________
Lakewood90712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2015, 08:35 PM   #46
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 202
With free advisers you get what you pay for: the most expensive advice (free or paid for) that you will ever get!

Here's a little thing you can do to punk this adviser. Tell him that you are really interested in index funds and have already made up your mind that you want to invest in index funds. Ask him what index funds he has to offer. Index funds don't pay any broker commissions so he should be out the door in short order.
__________________
ETFs_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2015, 10:26 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready View Post
...
I know what my options are for fixed income investments. So he's going to have to demonstrate to me how his solutions are better than what I currently have. And I'm happy to give him the opportunity to do so. But I'm not easily sold, so it will be up to him to determine how hard he wants to make a sale.

I suspect he will just thank me for his time and move on if I don't immediately jump at what he has to offer. We'll see.
Do you really expect to learn anything at all?

I'm pretty sure that if I go to a Ford dealer, the salesperson is going to try to sell me on the virtues of a Ford. They are not going to point out that Chevy makes a model that might be a better fit for me and my money.

I don't need to spend time in a Ford showroom to verify this.

What's the point?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2015, 10:55 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
To Ready, If you must go through, after all the advise to the contrary, change the meeting place to a Starbucks. Don't let him into your home, and don't meet at his office. those two places are where they are most comfortable.
+1
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 03:26 AM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post


SPY has returned 32% in the past 2 years, 60% in three years - that's 'sideways'? Let me know hen he predict an 'up' market!

-ERD50
but for all we moved the s&p has returned 2.10% in real return the last 15 years . we did a whole lot retracing on any older money .
__________________
mathjak107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 04:25 AM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,872
Why? People come for the free dinner. They are adults. They know the dinner is not actually "free" and that there will be a sales pitch. They don't have to *fall* for the pitch. The pitchmen/women make them aware of a product, and unlike 20 years ago, there is an Internet they can use to research the advertised product before buying.

Amethyst

Quote:
Originally Posted by ETFs_Rule View Post
These free-dinner seminar "advisers" should all be taken out and shot for robbing returns from people's retirement.
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 06:00 AM   #51
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Why? People come for the free dinner. They are adults. They know the dinner is not actually "free" and that there will be a sales pitch. They don't have to *fall* for the pitch. The pitchmen/women make them aware of a product, and unlike 20 years ago, there is an Internet they can use to research the advertised product before buying.

Amethyst
It's amazing how many people are not Internet savvy or just plain don't do their due diligence. Either way these salesmen have no conscience. They know they are selling crap and using truth suppression techniques, omitting important stuff, distorting the truth, etc. Insurance salesmen actually go to this school to learn about how to be deceptive salesmen by selling fear of the markets. Dateline NBC did a story about it.
__________________
ETFs_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 06:06 AM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,872
I am afraid I am feeling a bit callous today. People who are greedy enough to take someone up on a "free" dinner [myself included], should not get any sympathy for being naive/stupid enough to believe sales pitches without any critical thought. By that logic, most sales people should be taken out and shot.

Wait, I am having second thoughts...perhaps shooting applies in some instances....I have a long-ago ex who is an insurance salesman. LOL it took me a while to learn how to see through HIS smoke and mirrors....although he didn't sell me any insurance, LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by ETFs_Rule View Post
It's amazing how many people are not Internet savvy or just plain don't do their due diligence. Either way these salesmen have no conscience. They know they are selling crap and using truth suppression techniques, omitting important stuff, distorting the truth, etc. Insurance salesmen actually go to this school to learn about how to be deceptive salesmen by selling fear of the markets. Dateline NBC did a story about it.
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 09:43 AM   #53
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Do you really expect to learn anything at all?

I'm pretty sure that if I go to a Ford dealer, the salesperson is going to try to sell me on the virtues of a Ford.
In my experience, car salespeople know even less about their products than financial advisors. You'd think if they're trying to sell me a $30,000 item, they would know their products quite well. What's the fuel economy? How easy is it to change the oil filter or headlight bulbs myself? Are the rear brakes disc brakes or drum brakes? Is the spare tire a full-size or space-saver? "Uh, let me ask my manager." Pathetic. If I walk into a dealership and know more about the car than the salesperson, he/she is utterly terrible at his/her job.
__________________
kombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 11:04 AM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by kombat View Post
In my experience, car salespeople know even less about their products than financial advisors. You'd think if they're trying to sell me a $30,000 item, they would know their products quite well.
They know that in most cases the more they know, the fewer cars they sell. Can you imagine any of the data heavy denizens of this board selling anything?

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 11:10 AM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kombat View Post
In my experience, car salespeople know even less about their products than financial advisors. You'd think if they're trying to sell me a $30,000 item, they would know their products quite well. What's the fuel economy? How easy is it to change the oil filter or headlight bulbs myself? Are the rear brakes disc brakes or drum brakes? Is the spare tire a full-size or space-saver? "Uh, let me ask my manager." Pathetic. If I walk into a dealership and know more about the car than the salesperson, he/she is utterly terrible at his/her job.
All that stuff are things I would have researched on-line anyhow.

If the sales person can walk me through how to fold the seats up, access the controls, etc, that's more valuable to me than them memorizing the spec sheet.

In the near future, virtual reality will be good enough for most of that as well.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 11:23 AM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,872
Yes! We have had several threads on yard sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
can you imagine any of the data heavy denizens of this board selling anything?

Ha
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 01:29 PM   #57
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
I am afraid I am feeling a bit callous today. People who are greedy enough to take someone up on a "free" dinner [myself included], should not get any sympathy for being naive/stupid enough to believe sales pitches without any critical thought. By that logic, most sales people should be taken out and shot.
OK. Let's talk logic. That's like saying if a woman who goes out on a date with some guy and winds up getting raped then it's her fault. She shouldn't have gone out on the date. The people who have these seminars are adept at fooling people. Most investors are naive about investing. They don't teach investing in school and money doesn't come with an instruction manual.
__________________
ETFs_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 01:59 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,872
Please. Let us not start comparing annuity sales pitches to rape. Not now. Not ever. Just NO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ETFs_Rule View Post
OK. Let's talk logic. That's like saying if a woman who goes out on a date with some guy and winds up getting raped then it's her fault. She shouldn't have gone out on the date. The people who have these seminars are adept at fooling people. Most investors are naive about investing. They don't teach investing in school and money doesn't come with an instruction manual.
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 02:40 PM   #59
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
but for all we moved the s&p has returned 2.10% in real return the last 15 years . we did a whole lot retracing on any older money .
Attachment 22027

Well done, sir, well done. Excellent selection of timeframe, and kudos for ignoring dividend returns. Clearly, Variable Universal Life has done well for you these past 15 years.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 03:05 PM   #60
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Attachment 22027

Well done, sir, well done. Excellent selection of timeframe, and kudos for ignoring dividend returns. Clearly, Variable Universal Life has done well for you these past 15 years.

Ha!




Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________

__________________
dallas27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Sales Pitch From A Financial "Advisor" Zantastic FIRE and Money 18 04-05-2015 04:56 PM
Personal Capital pitch calmloki FIRE and Money 15 06-17-2014 12:07 PM
Pitch-drop experiment or watching grass grow hakuna matata Other topics 14 07-18-2013 03:56 PM
Sunday Dinner and Supper Danny Other topics 33 02-18-2009 08:01 PM
Join Gambling Club -> Free Casino Dinner, Gotchas? TromboneAl Other topics 26 10-18-2008 06:37 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:39 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.