My free dinner and sales pitch

[ETFs_Rule]

Why? People come for the free dinner. They are adults. They know the dinner is not actually "free" and that there will be a sales pitch. They don't have to *fall* for the pitch. The pitchmen/women make them aware of a product, and unlike 20 years ago, there is an Internet they can use to research the advertised product before buying.

Amethyst

It's amazing how many people are not Internet savvy or just plain don't do their due diligence. Either way these salesmen have no conscience. They know they are selling crap and using truth suppression techniques, omitting important stuff, distorting the truth, etc. Insurance salesmen actually go to this school to learn about how to be deceptive salesmen by selling fear of the markets. Dateline NBC did a story about it.

 

[Amethyst]

I am afraid I am feeling a bit callous today. People who are greedy enough to take someone up on a "free" dinner [myself included], should not get any sympathy for being naive/stupid enough to believe sales pitches without any critical thought. By that logic, most sales people should be taken out and shot.

Wait, I am having second thoughts...perhaps shooting applies in some instances....I have a long-ago ex who is an insurance salesman. LOL it took me a while to learn how to see through HIS smoke and mirrors....although he didn't sell me any insurance, LOL

It's amazing how many people are not Internet savvy or just plain don't do their due diligence. Either way these salesmen have no conscience. They know they are selling crap and using truth suppression techniques, omitting important stuff, distorting the truth, etc. Insurance salesmen actually go to this school to learn about how to be deceptive salesmen by selling fear of the markets. Dateline NBC did a story about it.

 

[kombat]

Do you really expect to learn anything at all?

I'm pretty sure that if I go to a Ford dealer, the salesperson is going to try to sell me on the virtues of a Ford.

In my experience, car salespeople know even less about their products than financial advisors. You'd think if they're trying to sell me a $30,000 item, they would know their products quite well. What's the fuel economy? How easy is it to change the oil filter or headlight bulbs myself? Are the rear brakes disc brakes or drum brakes? Is the spare tire a full-size or space-saver? "Uh, let me ask my manager." Pathetic. If I walk into a dealership and know more about the car than the salesperson, he/she is utterly terrible at his/her job.

 

[haha]

In my experience, car salespeople know even less about their products than financial advisors. You'd think if they're trying to sell me a $30,000 item, they would know their products quite well.

They know that in most cases the more they know, the fewer cars they sell. Can you imagine any of the data heavy denizens of this board selling anything?

Ha

 

[ERD50]

In my experience, car salespeople know even less about their products than financial advisors. You'd think if they're trying to sell me a $30,000 item, they would know their products quite well. What's the fuel economy? How easy is it to change the oil filter or headlight bulbs myself? Are the rear brakes disc brakes or drum brakes? Is the spare tire a full-size or space-saver? "Uh, let me ask my manager." Pathetic. If I walk into a dealership and know more about the car than the salesperson, he/she is utterly terrible at his/her job.

All that stuff are things I would have researched on-line anyhow.

If the sales person can walk me through how to fold the seats up, access the controls, etc, that's more valuable to me than them memorizing the spec sheet.

In the near future, virtual reality will be good enough for most of that as well.

-ERD50

 

[Amethyst]

Yes! We have had several threads on yard sales.

can you imagine any of the data heavy denizens of this board selling anything?

Ha

 

[ETFs_Rule]

I am afraid I am feeling a bit callous today. People who are greedy enough to take someone up on a "free" dinner [myself included], should not get any sympathy for being naive/stupid enough to believe sales pitches without any critical thought. By that logic, most sales people should be taken out and shot.

OK. Let's talk logic. That's like saying if a woman who goes out on a date with some guy and winds up getting raped then it's her fault. She shouldn't have gone out on the date. The people who have these seminars are adept at fooling people. Most investors are naive about investing. They don't teach investing in school and money doesn't come with an instruction manual.

 

[Amethyst]

Please. Let us not start comparing annuity sales pitches to rape. Not now. Not ever. Just NO.

OK. Let's talk logic. That's like saying if a woman who goes out on a date with some guy and winds up getting raped then it's her fault. She shouldn't have gone out on the date. The people who have these seminars are adept at fooling people. Most investors are naive about investing. They don't teach investing in school and money doesn't come with an instruction manual.

 

[M Paquette]

but for all we moved the s&p has returned 2.10% in real return the last 15 years . we did a whole lot retracing on any older money .

View attachment 22027

Well done, sir, well done. Excellent selection of timeframe, and kudos for ignoring dividend returns. Clearly, Variable Universal Life has done well for you these past 15 years.

 

[dallas27]

View attachment 22027

Well done, sir, well done. Excellent selection of timeframe, and kudos for ignoring dividend returns. Clearly, Variable Universal Life has done well for you these past 15 years.

Ha!




Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Totoro]

They know that in most cases the more they know, the fewer cars they sell. Can you imagine any of the data heavy denizens of this board selling anything?

Ha

True for nearly any high ticket item. Diamonds, cars, houses, horses, boats (children?). Emotion, not content. Different skill set.

Couldn't sell one if my life depended on it.

 

[ETFs_Rule]

Please. Let us not start comparing annuity sales pitches to rape. Not now. Not ever. Just NO.

Then let's not blame naive investors for going to a "seminar" hosted by someone who is trying to sell expensive, wealth eroding financial products.

 

[MichaelB]

Let's keep it friendly, folks.

 

[rayinpenn]

I went to a time share session once to get a free something (can't remember anymore). It was plain awful the units were pretty awful too. I didn't like timeshares then and I like them less now. I don't go to the risk free retirement workshops because the products sold just don't make financial sense. Am I so desperate for a free dinner to listen to nonsense? No, I am a firm believer that a really good deal sells itself.




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[Ready]

Today was my appointment with my "financial advisor". He came over and spent about an hour with me. He asked me what he may be able to help me with, and we focused on alternatives to CDs and bonds for fixed income solutions. He described two different products:

1) A product with a 4% guaranteed return, and some upside to share in the market gains but with no loss of principal if the market goes down.

2) A product with a 1% annual fee that gives you a 25% premium over the gains on the above product, but again with no loss of principal.

I let him know I would like to review the fine print details of the program, and he said he would send me a copy of the contract for the Allianz 360 product for me to review.

I didn't find him to be particularly pushy. He could tell that I'm used to reviewing contracts and I understand financial investments fairly well. If he misrepresented anything, I think he figured out pretty quickly that I would figure it out after review the terms of the contract. He said he would be sending me the information in the mail.

We talked about how the benefits of his product compared to a strategy of rebalancing each year to take advantage of the swings in the stock market. He said rebalancing would likely product about the same results as the annuities he was describing. So at least he didn't try to make them sound better than my strategy.

I'm not really sure what to make of all this. Perhaps he kept it light because he figured I wasn't likely to fall for something that makes no financial sense?

 

[LOL!]

1) A product with a 4% guaranteed return, and some upside to share in the market gains but with no loss of principal if the market goes down.

I used to work for a company that sold things. No one would buy any of our things unless we gave out of list of names/addresses/phone numbers of all previous people who had bought the same thing. We always gave out the list.

So can you get a list of people who bought one of these things in the past 5 years and find out how well the equity-indexed-annuity (aka fixed annuity)did for them?

Do these people even exist? After years of participating on internet forums, I have not read even once where folks had one of these products and ever got the stated return. Maybe something is guaranteed, but it always seems to be "before fees". After fees, there is nothing left for the client.

 

[MRG]

I used to work for a company that sold things. No one would buy any of our things unless we gave out of list of names/addresses/phone numbers of all previous people who had bought the same thing. We always gave out the list.

So can you get a list of people who bought one of these things in the past 5 years and find out how well the equity-indexed-annuity (aka fixed annuity)did for them?

Do these people even exist? After years of participating on internet forums, I have not read even once where folks had one of these products and ever got the stated return. Maybe something is guaranteed, but it always seems to be "before fees". After fees, there is nothing left for the client.

You don't have to find people. I Google "Allianz 360" all kinds of reviews popped up. None were particularly flattering.

Here's the first one that's not from allianz:
http://blog.runnymede.com/an-impartial-review-of-the-allianz-360-annuity-with-360-benefit-rider

Many more just like it........

 

[Ready]

As MRG stated,

This article does a nice job explaining the problem with the Allianz 360 product:

An impartial review of the Allianz 360 Annuity with 360 Benefit Rider

When calculating the premium earned from the rise in the market, you get 25% of the benefit in the good months, but you get 100% of the downside in the bad months. So when the good and bad months are added up at the end of the year, you are lucky to get anything at all. And after deducting the 1.15% rider fee, you are likely only going to earn 2-3% per year.

Without reading this article, I think I would have had a difficult time discovering this "catch", even if I had read through the entire contract. Of course, I would never invest in anything without pouring over the internet to get feedback on it first.

In any case, it's been a great learning experience for me so far.

 

[ETFs_Rule]

Today was my appointment with my "financial advisor". He came over and spent about an hour with me. He asked me what he may be able to help me with, and we focused on alternatives to CDs and bonds for fixed income solutions. He described two different products:

1) A product with a 4% guaranteed return, and some upside to share in the market gains but with no loss of principal if the market goes down.

2) A product with a 1% annual fee that gives you a 25% premium over the gains on the above product, but again with no loss of principal.

Where do I begin?
This "financial adviser" you are working with is nothing more than a SALESMAN. This is the most EXPENSIVE free advice you will ever get.
Not surprisingly he is urging you to buy insurance products like index annuities. The Ugly Truth about Equity Index Annuities
This salesman is also being highly deceptive about fees. These insurance products have all sorts of hidden fees that he will never talk about. Also he is trying to confuse you into thinking that "income base" is return on investment. Your actual return on investment will wind up being between about 2 and 5%.

Ask this guy about investing in Vanguard index funds and watch his face turn blue.

He said rebalancing would likely produce about the same results as the annuities he was describing.

He should be arrested for fraudulent representations. Show him this chart and tell him to shove it. http://www.yourinvestmentadvise.com/images/quiz-3.jpg

2 - 5% expected returns from index annuities moving forward http://www.retirementthinktank.com/what-are-the-real-returns-of-indexed-annuities/

 

[prudent_one]

Our insurance guy tried to pitch me on converting my IRA to one of their annuities. The 4-page color glossy brochure sounded pretty good. I asked how many pages the actual contract was. He thought it was about 40 or 50. I said then I'm out, there's no way I can understand a 40 page contract and I don't invest in anything I don't fully understand. He started to say something but I politely cut him off and said not a chance, I won't buy anything that needs a 40 page contract, I don't care what it is. I actually think that was an objection he hadn't encountered before.

 

[MRG]

Ready,

Thanks for starting a great thread and sharing your experience. I'd always wondered how these salespeople convinced others to buy their products. I don't have the patience or tolerance for a dinner or have someone in my home.

Reading how this FA spun a bad product into something that sounds ok was interesting to me too. I too may not have picked up on the bad points by reading the details, too much confusion in the details. Thanks for sharing! I learned a lot.

 

[Amethyst]

Or what? You'll continue to compare a free-dinner seminar selling a shaky investment product, with being forced to have sex? Are you saying that men and women who are raped, are only raped because they are naive or greedy?

You can legitmiately hate annuities, without comparing their sale to a violent crime. You can legitimately defend the people who fall for sales pitches, without comparing them to lifetime sufferers from rape-related injuries and PTSD.

Then let's not blame naive investors for going to a "seminar" hosted by someone who is trying to sell expensive, wealth eroding financial products.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Today was my appointment with my "financial advisor". He came over and spent about an hour with me. He asked me what he may be able to help me with, and we focused on alternatives to CDs and bonds for fixed income solutions. He described two different products:

1) A product with a 4% guaranteed return, and some upside to share in the market gains but with no loss of principal if the market goes down.

2) A product with a 1% annual fee that gives you a 25% premium over the gains on the above product, but again with no loss of principal.

I let him know I would like to review the fine print details of the program, and he said he would send me a copy of the contract for the Allianz 360 product for me to review.

I didn't find him to be particularly pushy. He could tell that I'm used to reviewing contracts and I understand financial investments fairly well. If he misrepresented anything, I think he figured out pretty quickly that I would figure it out after review the terms of the contract. He said he would be sending me the information in the mail. ...

What will happen next--I imagine he will call you for a follow-up visit or telephone meeting after giving you time to review the contract? You will have to keep us posted on his answers to your questions about the product.

 

[Tailgate]

I can't imagine spending any time on this stuff at all, especially if you are still working!!!!

I have so many better things to do than go out to some dinner presentation (I can afford to take myself out to eat) and then to have them visit my house and sit through a pitch? Arrrrgh!!!

I realize not everyone is the same, but I just had to say this. Life is too short for such crap!!!!

+1000

 

[MichaelB]

You can legitmiately hate annuities, without comparing their sale to a violent crime.

I think everyone can agree with that. How about we move past this and focus on the thread topic?