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Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 12:09 AM   #1
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Need financial gratification?

"I think there's something inherent in a person's personality that marks them as good or bad candidates for happy retirement."

"I need financial gratification to guarantee feeling "right" about my time"

I found these comments on another site. I can see his point but that is not my view.

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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 08:31 AM   #2
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Re: Need financial gratification?

There was a thread on this site about personalities (which can be categorized by Myer's-Briggs method) and early retirement. It seems that there is indeed a certain personality that adapts best to retirement. Fortunately, although I am a small minority in terms of personality class, I am right in the "main stream" when it comes to early retirement.

Don't get the "guarantee feeling "right" about my time" comment?

A lot of people have financial anxiety which is assuaged by a regular paycheck and being able to accumulate financial assets. It can be hard to get past that.....

It ultimately comes down to what you think the point of living life is...

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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 08:40 AM   #3
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Re: Need financial gratification?

My first wife had a real problem with delayed gratification when it came to buying things. She felt it was her "right" to spend whatever she wanted because she worked. She just never "got it" that you have to save some of what you make to pay for stuff in the future when you don't have a paycheck coming in anymore. Her overspending and self serving attitude were part of the reason we divorced. Some people just do not understand the concept of save for a rainy day. These folks will never be able to retire early and when they do, will be forced to live below their income which will create discomfort and emotional trauma for them.

Few people on this board suffer from this as is obvious from the various polls on net worth, investment portfolios, retirement incomes, LBYM threads, etc. It is just a different way of looking at the present vs the future and being able to contain the desire to spend today to allow a comfortable living income later.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 08:53 AM   #4
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Re: Need financial gratification?

There's a guy I work with. He's 59 or 60 years old and in debt up to his ears. It seems like every six months he's doing a refinace on his house to cash out and pay the bills.

We had the talk about what his future would be. I suggested that he would end up in a teardrop trailer in the Nevada desert.

Anyway after that image he went home, talked to the wife and according to him "got the religion".

Fast forward two months he's now doing an expensive remodeling on his home and taking an expensive trip to Hawaii.

If I were to choose for him I would certainly make different choices. We must have very different values. I beleive in the first rule of holes - When you find youself in a hole stop digging.

Some people just have to learn the hard way... Unfortunately for him, his lesson will be difficult

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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 09:14 AM   #5
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Re: Need financial gratification?

I've always just invested a percentage off the top of each paycheck, that way if my wife wants to spend the rest on cat toys it really doesn't matter in the long run.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 09:20 AM   #6
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Any correlation between cat toys and small cap growth?
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 10:20 AM   #7
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Use to work with a number of fairly well educated people who pulled down anywhere from 80-120K a year. Most were middle aged and in debt up to their ears. New cars every year or every other year, new boats, newer and bigger houses, and expensive vacations and toys out the ying yang. They made keeping up with the Jones an art form. When conversation would turn to saving, investing and planning for retirement most just wanted to live for the day. Most are trapped into working well into their 60s. A few told me they wanted to work as long as their health was good. (Never did understand that one.) When I see these people now they tell me how lucky I am to be retired. I tell them luck had very little to do with it.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 10:36 AM   #8
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Heh, I work with some very wealthy people who have been specializing in junk bonds/heavily levered companies for many years. They live what I consider to be pretty large, consumption-wise, but they more than have the incomes to match. AFAIK, none of them carries any significant amount of debt. No home mortgage, no car loan, no nothing. All of them have seen what happens to borrowers when things get ugly.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 11:04 AM   #9
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Quote:
I've always just invested a percentage off the top of each paycheck, that way if my wife wants to spend the rest on cat toys it really doesn't matter in the long run.
This is the way i'm handling my wife at the moment too.* *I have a heavy percentage taken right out of my check going into my TSP, and then on top of that, I write those Roth checks first thing after we're paid.* *(I prefer not using automatic investing for the Roths, to give me a bit of flexiblity).* When she asks if we have the money to buy "XXX", which is frequent, i just say, "you see what's in the checkbook, just make sure it stays above 0 until we're paid again"* *

She can spend it all AFAIK (all that's left, anyway), since i'm content with what i have..... because i'm using this "artifical scarity" approach.* *We look poor much of the time judging by the checkbook since its down to a few hundred soon after we're paid, but in reality, the savings amounts are pretty healthy. In addition to Roths and TSP, i also have a separate money market account that's also funded, as well as earmarked funds that get contributions (such as "a car fund"). These are all paid upfront.

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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 11:20 AM   #10
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanon
This is the way i'm handling my wife at the moment too.* *...* When she asks if we have the money to buy "XXX", which is frequent, i just say, "you see what's in the checkbook, just make sure it stays above 0 until we're paid again"* *

She can spend it all AFAIK (all that's left, anyway), since i'm content with what i have..... because i'm using this "artifical scarity" approach.* *We look poor much of the time judging by the checkbook since its down to a few hundred soon after we're paid, but in reality, the savings amounts are pretty healthy.* ....
Azanon
My wife of 18 months came from a "spend every dime in your check" backround from her previous marrige. She has been pretty good about learning a new way to live. The carrot of ER has made a big difference with her attitude. She was "programed" to think about retirement at age 65 on a small pension and SS. She has sinced learned that her 401k is "free money", saving for 20 years from now will allow more fun in retirement than a pension or SS would allow. She is doing well with spending and is happy to just let me take care of everything. She is fine with letting me "approve" spending above a certain level but she is becoming very good at shopping for bargins and not buying unless she really needs something.

I am happy she is OK with this new way of income management. We still spend more than we ought but there is a place for "retail therapy" in a happy marriage. She works long hours so blowing a few $$$ here and there is good for her mental well being and it is not enough to make a dent in our savings plans.

Balance in all things.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 11:35 AM   #11
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanon
When she asks if we have the money to buy "XXX", which is frequent, i just say, "you see what's in the checkbook, just make sure it stays above 0 until we're paid again"* *
Kind of sounds like our household but I'M in charge of the money and not DH. He makes it and I invest it and pay the bills. I'm always joking that if anything happens to me, he won't know how to pay the bills and the electricity will get turned off He knows roughly how much we have in investments and savings and what are net worth is because I give him a monthly update but if you asked him how MUCH we're investing every month he probably wouldn't have a clue since it gets taken out automatically and we don't miss it.

Yes, I'm a strange female I guess....
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 11:44 AM   #12
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Calgary_Girl, that's how it is in my household only I make the money and do the investing and bill paying. Just last night I was trying to explain where all our money was. He hates the investment account, is very worried about the EmigrantDirect account and don't even talk to him about my 401k. I had some surgery this winter, before I went in I made a list of all the accounts, passwords and such and put it in his gun safe. I told him if something happened to me take that list to his friend Bob and he'd show him where everything is.

As for paying the bills, he would do okay with that but someone would have to check his math in the check register.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 11:58 AM   #13
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Outtahere and CalgaryGirl, I'm in your camp.* Every so often DH asks me, where is all of our money again?* And I have to explain it to him.* I have shown him how to pay the bills online, but he doesn't like computers.* I never do anything with the finances without telling him, but I don't know how much of it he really gets.* Once a quarter or so, I list everything on a page for him so he can see the total, and that makes him happy.* * :*


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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 12:11 PM   #14
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Calgary Girl/CJ/Outahere --- Guess we are all in the same boat. I pay the bills, keep a financial statement, keep track of investments, etc., etc.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 12:12 PM   #15
 
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Quote:
"artificial scarity"
I'm curious as to how much of your stash is truly a secret from your wife. *Are you a good actor?

Speech Bubble:
"Oh, gosh, look at this checking balance -- too bad we only have $87."

Thought Bubble:
"Plus the $4 million at Vanguard!"
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 12:15 PM   #16
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Chime in another girl paying the bills and making the investing decisions...and I do what we call "self-imposed poverty" on the checkbook right after we get paid, so we know that whatever is left can go to more discretionary purchases, since the investing money has already been taken out!
DH has no interest beyond the dreaded (to him) monthly accounting meeting we have, where I show him the account balances and where we are heading for the year. *He does like coloring in the bar chart when we reach another milestone! I OTOH, could play quicken every night and be happy!
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 12:25 PM   #17
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Quote:
I'm curious as to how much of your stash is truly a secret from your wife.* Are you a good actor?

Speech Bubble:
"Oh, gosh, look at this checking balance -- too bad we only have $87."

Thought Bubble:
"Plus the $4 million at Vanguard!"
Well, my wife is a lot like the others just above me described their SO.* Nothing i'm saving is really a secret so much as it is that she just doesn't follow what I do very closely; and that's by her personal choice.* * Except for the TSP contributions, all the others are recorded directly in our checking account for her to see, which fall on the lines immediately below our payment(s).* *So our balance will go from, say, $2800 (paycheck) to $1400 (investments/bills) all in one recording.* *She just doesn't complain and trusts me that what i'm doing is necessary.

I also let her see a printout of our balances in Quicken every so often.

So, that's what works for me.* Pay the investments and bills immediately, and then she can go on a spending spree with the rest, for all i care.* * It avoids arguments.

Azanon

(edit) Sarah (above) does what i do, basically.
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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 12:35 PM   #18
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Re: Need financial gratification?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclesters
*He does like coloring in the bar chart when we reach another milestone!
Sarah
Ha!* That's pretty funny.*

I'm pretty fortunate that DH & I are on the same page as far as finances go.* We're both savers and not spenders.* OTOH, I can spend money sometimes and he doesn't even know...* but I rarely do this.* Every so often he asks how much is in the checking account, and as long as it is above a certain threshold, I'm in the clear.* He's lucky I'm not the type to take advantage of the situation.* But then, I'm the one who can't wait to ER...

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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 01:54 PM   #19
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Re: Need financial gratification?

OK - I have this (rather obvious) theory that those of us participating regularly on this forum - whether male or female - are the ones managing the family finances.

My husband gets the bottom line now and then, lets me know when he wants to buy another piece of computer or camera equipment, but otherwise is delighted to let me handle all the investments, track budget, pay bills, etc. I did all the retirement planning too (and I had to convince him to drop his part-time consulting job too because it wouldn't be much fun for me to be retired if he still had to work part of the time).

Oh - he does the annual taxes which is a major help. I take care of absolutely everything else financially.

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Re: Need financial gratification?
Old 03-28-2006, 03:50 PM   #20
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Re: Need financial gratification?

DW used to do all the financial stuff in her previous relationships so is enjoying me doing it for now. She does the medical insurance stuff (which I hate to do) so the division of labor is OK with me. Like Mclesters, I like running MS Money planners just for fun. I have over 12 years of data in there so the confidence is High.

I share as much as DW wants to know, which is not much. She just says take care of it and let me know our final retirement date.

July 31, 2007 is the date.
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