Neighbor not paying her fair share of property tax?

[34rlsa]

Are they Greek?

 

[target2019]

It's difficult to live with a neighbor problem every day. And many homeowners get a tax break while others pay more. It just so happens that my next door neighbor had a tax bill less than 1/2 of ours. I never understood it, but as he got older certain circumstances became clearer to me. The house was a mess inside. Also found out there is no basement.

What did bother me was that his son who also lives in town would bring a large amount of questionable trash to the curb every week. The trash was produced by his business and he was breaking code I felt. However, I never complained, as I know that there are ways that information leaks out, and I did not want to have bad blood.

It does sound like you could cause the family some grief. Just tread lightly and make sure all of the facts are as you think they are.

 

[turbo89]

Another vote for MYOB. From you're post it's clear you don't entirely know the circumstances, so it's best to just move on and forget about it.

 

[Sunset]

Live & Let Live ...

I'm a libertarian, and if it doesn't affect me directly, its none of my damn business

My friends the drug importers who drive 18 wheelers like your attitude. So does my distant cousin the serial killer

My wife told me to pretend I'm joking

 

[Texas Proud]

First, who would you report it to??

Second, what do you think they would do about it??


My prediction... nothing...


Here they send out a postcard saying that you still have your exemption... as long as the current resident does not say anything the exemption stays... I doubt they are going to go out and spend money on an investigation for at most a couple of thousand.... not in their budget and not worth their time...


BTW, since our house value is going up at a rapid pace I decided to take a look at our old house to see what they valued it at.... to my surprise I noticed that the single mom who bought the place did not file for homestead exemption...... and that is costing some big money since not only is she missing the exemption, but also the 10% max yearly increase... I thought about sending something to her, but then said... NOMB.... she was told what she needed to do at closing... she had her dad with her... if she fails to do it..... well, so be it...

 

[pb4uski]

At this point you have suspicions... and perhaps well founded suspicions. I would report them to the appropriate authorities then your duty is done. Their duty is to investigate the situation and if they find it is as you think, to take action.

If the situation is what you think it is then it is tax fraud and your neighbor is wrong.

However, recognize that there is some risk that if the neighbor finds out that you brought your suspicions to the attention of the authorities that they will likely be made as hell (keep your car in the garage if you have one).

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If they are keeping up the house, aren't having loud parties, don't leave barking dogs out all night, aren't busybodies, aren't driving too fast around the neighborhood, aren't having loud arguments, or otherwise not being the neighbors from hell, personally I would be grateful for living next door to nice, normal people and not worry about the taxes.

Property taxes here in California from one tract house to an almost identical house next door can vary by 10 times or more due to Prop 13, if one neighbor bought decades ago and the other home is a more recent purchase.

"The Bible tells us to love our neighbor, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people." - G.K. Chesterton

 

[Amethyst]

I don't understand the issue. The owner qualifies for the tax break. She owns the home, and is the one paying the taxes. It seems like she would have the right to invite family members to live in her house where she pays the taxes.

There might be county regulations about exceeding the number of people allowed to live in one house, but that's not a tax issue.

Amethyst

 

[Another Reader]

Maybe she has a reverse mortgage as well. Why not look that up in the County Recorder's records and turn her in to the lender if she is not living there? That way the bank can foreclose on her for being out of compliance with the terms of the mortgage. "Justice" will be served, right?


My point is where are you going to draw the line? What is "your business" and what is not your business? If your neighbor is harming you and your neighborhood by selling crack to 10 year old kids, that's an obvious problem for everyone. But getting some kind of tax break because she might not be living in the house fulltime? That's a MYOB in my book.

 

[clifp]

Probably the best thing to to is contact the county assessor's office (or whoever handles property taxes where you are) and let them know of your observations. But it is up to them to do any investigations and take any action.

+1
It may or may not be a violation of the law. I think people cheating on their taxes is everyone's problems. I think sending a letter (perhaps anonymously) should be the extent of your involvement.

 

[marko]

Gaming the system, whether avoiding taxes (property, income, excise, liquor, sales, etc), fees, entitlements, etc is deemed a near professional sport in these parts.

Should I report my neighbor who drives 20 minutes to NH to avoid MA sales and liquor taxes? Or the guy who registers his car in NH but lives in MA to avoid sales, excise and registration fees? Or the folks who are getting multiple EBT cards and selling them for cash? What about the ones with multiple bankruptcies who buy all kinds of "stuff": cars, boats, houses with zero intention of ever paying for them? Or the older people who 'self impoverish' in order to get Medicaid pick up the nursing home tab? Or the guy who just won $2,000 off a bookie? What about the guy "working under the table" who collects unemployment?

At what point do you pick up the phone?

 

[Andre1969]

I just checked Zillow.com with regards to my own tax history, and it's strange. Their data on my place goes from 2005-2014. They nailed it for 2014: $3165. I paid $3164.63 in September of 2014. However, all the other data is way off. Oddly, 2005 is listed as $2359, which is what I paid in September of '04. But for 2006-2013 the numbers vary wildly from around $1600-4400, and my taxes have never been that low, nor that high.

My taxes crept up steadily through 2010, when they topped out around $3300, but then we got re-assessed for 2011 and they came down slightly, and have been fairly flat since.

Now, Maryland does something called a Homestead Tax Credit (or maybe it's just my county, Prince George's), that caps your annual property tax increase if the home is your primary residence. This credit shows as a subtraction on the line items of your property tax bill. I remember by the time 2010 rolled around, the total tax bill on my place was around $5000, but the Homestead Tax Credit had swelled to about $1700, hence the actual bill of $3300. Incidentally, the $4400 Zillow shows in my history was for 2010, so their algorithms were at least somewhat following the local market.

As for finding tax information online, In Maryland you can search for an address and find out information such as assessed value, the last 3 or 4 sales transactions on that property, year built, how much land, square footage, owner's name, whether it's the principal residence or not, etc. But I don't know how to pull up information on how much the property tax bill is. I think there is a way though, because there was one time I forgot to bring my tax bill/canceled check information with me when I had my income taxes done, but my tax man was able to go online to some site and get the exact information.

 

[LOL!]

Clearly the OP needs to write a Letter to the Editor of the local newspaper complaining about property tax fraud without naming any names. As in,

Dear Editor,

Does the County Tax Assessor ever go and check to see if a property has a legitimate over-65 exemption? I am sick of possible tax fraud in this County when it comes to property taxes. There need to be more audits and fact checking so that everyone pays their fair share of taxes and especially large families with lots of school-age children.

Sincerely, ….


I think there was a similar thread recommending MYOB when employees were stealing from employers. This jist was "If Management is too stupid to see things right under their nose, then they deserve to be stolen from and I'm not going to report anything myself."

 

[donheff]

I'm with the live and let live contingent. There could be a number of reasons why the old lady is legit. Or she may be cheating but be under tremendous financial pressure trying to help a daughter who's spouse ran off leaving her broke or some such situation. As somebody said, cheating the taxman is practically a national sport. Where do you draw the line on vigilante enforcement?

 

[bclover]

+1
It may or may not be a violation of the law. I think people cheating on their taxes is everyone's problems. I think sending a letter (perhaps anonymously) should be the extent of your involvement.

+1

Not sure I would do anythiing though.

Op, you cannot say 100% that the senior is not at some time living there and for the record I grew up in a NYC apartment 4 kids, 2 parents and a set of grandparents. You make do with the space you have, not everyone can afford to up and move to a mcmansion simply because their family grows.

Unless it immediately effects my health or welfare, I think long and hard before calling authorities on anyone.

 

[jerome len]

I'm sort of glad I'm not soupxcan......I'd hate to have the time to worry about this.

I live in a neighborhood with an HOA association.....it's the battle we, and only we, enjoy.

We stay out of neighborhood wars, no one wins. I can see getting involved if a neighbor has drug parties, steals from your garage, drives drunk.....but ours don't and they have "stupid" little wars.....should a tree get trimmed?.....is the paint color an unacceptable off shade of color?"......should the community pool be cleaned in the morning or afternoon?"......Yeah, all really important. As others have said if your nieghbor doesn't cause you problems, why worry? Let me be clear.....I don't and wouldn't cheat on my taxes.....my reputation is too important! And, I do have a good friend that works for the IRS......cheating is wrong.....but, there are shades of gray......this sounds like one of them......let it go.....enjoy life!!!!!!

 

[bclover]

I think there was a similar thread recommending MYOB when employees were stealing from employers. This jist was "If Management is too stupid to see things right under their nose, then they deserve to be stolen from and I'm not going to report anything myself."

lol, until management decides to shut the business down then the employees start grumbling how unfair it is that they are out of a job while management got nice little golden parachutes. Actually happen to a firm I worked in.

 

[MRG]

.. Snip...

However, recognize that there is some risk that if the neighbor finds out that you brought your suspicions to the attention of the authorities that they will likely be made as hell (keep your car in the garage if you have one).

Agreed with the entire post. This last section was the type of BS we lived with. Keyed cars, no help from LE(not their fault ) our lives totally messed up from not MMOB. Why put a literal target on your back?

 

[eytonxav]

I am not sure if this is some form of tax evasion, although I think not, but why concern yourself with it. There is enough to be concerned about in the news.

 

[aja8888]

Soup: If you think and old woman's (suspected) tax avoidance is bad, please go read the Greece thread!

 

[Car-Guy]

+1
It may or may not be a violation of the law. I think people cheating on their taxes is everyone's problems. I think sending a letter (perhaps anonymously) should be the extent of your involvement.

+1

 

[karen1972]

Gaming the system, whether avoiding taxes (property, income, excise, liquor, sales, etc), fees, entitlements, etc is deemed a near professional sport in these parts.

Should I report my neighbor who drives 20 minutes to NH to avoid MA sales and liquor taxes? Or the guy who registers his car in NH but lives in MA to avoid sales, excise and registration fees? Or the folks who are getting multiple EBT cards and selling them for cash? What about the ones with multiple bankruptcies who buy all kinds of "stuff": cars, boats, houses with zero intention of ever paying for them? Or the older people who 'self impoverish' in order to get Medicaid pick up the nursing home tab? Or the guy who just won $2,000 off a bookie? What about the guy "working under the table" who collects unemployment?

At what point do you pick up the phone?

But this is exactly why it should be reported, I had the same issues with my neighbors, what started as small fraud became more and more fraud and then I realized like 1/2 the block was committing fraud and enough is enough, if the first one had gotten caught, the rest wouldn't have done it. Everything from the taking unemployment but not looking for a job, to cash business while taking food stamps and actually living off a trust fund, etc.

What I noticed the most during the recession is that it use to be that 1-5% of society that cheated the system which seemed to blow up to more like 20-30% were like well if others can do it why not me... it does't make a good society and not one I want to live in. There are already plenty of tax loopholes that are legit to use...no need to make up your own.

 

[Meadbh]

I reread the original post. There could be a myriad of legitimate reasons why the owner does not appear to be living in her home. For example, perhaps she is a perpetual traveller who maintains a residence and her daughter and family are house sitting. Perhaps she is frequently hospitalized. You just don't know. My approach would be to give her the benefit of the doubt.

In my condo complex we recently had a complaint that a resident was operating an illegal daycare, which would violate city bylaws. Turned out the resident was child minding a niece. Just normal family stuff.

 

[soupcxan]

The rules says you must physically occupy the property as your primary residence. The exception to this is if you move to a nursing home or hospital but intend to return to the house.

I readily admit I do not have certainty of anything. I live across the street and I regularly see the two adults and the six kids in the yard. I see other folks coming and going. I don't regularly see anyone who appears to be over 65.

The house is not a crackhouse by any stretch, but it is also not particularly well maintained. Grass is not regularly cut, cars are parked on the front lawn at times, it sounds like there is a rooster in the backyard (which is it's own code enforcement issue), etc. And the husband has just started some sort of distributorship out of his garage. So all this has raised my eyebrow.

I didn't go looking to get anyone in trouble, I came across this when I was researching my own property tax protest. But it feels a bit inequitable when someone has 5 kids in public school and is paying less than half of the current tax rate...and I am paying full fare and have zero kids in school. The bulk of the taxes go to the school district.

I am all for the over 65 exemption but I doubt it was intended to subsidize two healthy, employed 30-somethings with a lot of kids (if they are in fact abusing it).

 

[karen1972]

I am all for the over 65 exemption but I doubt it was intended to subsidize two healthy, employed 30-somethings with a lot of kids (if they are in fact abusing it).

Actually that is the whole problem with the 65 exemption, it is assuming you don't have children and thus shouldn't have to pay for schools any longer, but especially during the recession that just wasn't the case. Almost every person on my block had at least one child move home with them and often bringing their kids with them which overloaded our school district. It took 2-3 years and now they have all moved out but reality is its always unfair as A) I'm 40 and will never have kids but pay anyway B) my own father was 70 before my sister graduated so 65 is not the cut off for having kids C) with multi-generations it not a good way to figure out how many people are going to have kids going to school as many cultures will live with many generations in a home and thus would always use this exemption totally legitimately. It really should be when you apply for the exemption you also indicate, no children present in your home...that is the only way to be fair.