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View Poll Results: Estimate Your Current Net Worth
Negative 1 0.54%
0 - 25,000 0 0%
25,000 - 50,000 2 1.09%
50,000 - 100,000 2 1.09%
100,000 - 200,000 7 3.80%
200,000 - 300,000 3 1.63%
300,000 - 400,000 9 4.89%
400,000 - 500,000 10 5.43%
500,000 - 600,000 7 3.80%
600,000 - 700,000 11 5.98%
700,000 - 800,000 15 8.15%
800,000 - 900,000 6 3.26%
900,000 - 1,000,000 8 4.35%
1,000,000 - 1,250,000 13 7.07%
1,250,000 - 1,500,000 21 11.41%
1,500,000 - 1,750,000 11 5.98%
1,750,000 - 2,000,000 9 4.89%
2,000,000 - 2,250,000 9 4.89%
2,250,000 - 2,500,000 7 3.80%
2,500,000 - 2,750,000 7 3.80%
2,750,000 - 3,000,000 4 2.17%
3,000,000 - 3,250,000 2 1.09%
3,250,000 - 3,500,000 2 1.09%
3,500,000 - 3,750,000 0 0%
3,750,000 - 4,000,000 1 0.54%
4,000,000 - 4,250,000 6 3.26%
4,250,000 - 4,500,000 2 1.09%
4,500,000 - 4,750,000 0 0%
4,750,000 - 5,000,000 3 1.63%
5,000,000 - 6,000,000 4 2.17%
6,000,000 - 7,000,000 0 0%
7,000,000 - 8,000,000 0 0%
8,000,000 - 9,000,000 2 1.09%
9,000,000 - 10,000,000 0 0%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll

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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 03:09 PM   #21
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Just to add to the discussion, even though net worth is the difference between assets and liabilities, that may not be the net worth definition that applies to what you need for FI.

Instead, your net worth definition may be:*

Useable Net Worth = Assets that will provide a stream of income - Liabilities

Your house and the pencil on your desk are both assets, but neither may provide a stream of income in the future to you unless you sell or rent the pencil or house.



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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 03:31 PM   #22
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
Just to add to the discussion, even though net worth is the difference between assets and liabilities, that may not be the net worth definition that applies to what you need for FI.

Instead, your net worth definition may be:*

Useable Net Worth = Assets that will provide a stream of income - Liabilities

Your house and the pencil on your desk are both assets, but neither may provide a stream of income in the future to you unless you sell or rent the pencil or house.
Agreed, but you could say the same thing about your stock portfolio. In that case, only the dividend paying stocks would count. Likewise, in the case of real estate, only property that you're renting would count.

FI shouldn't be so restrictive. The whole point of FI is that you have the assets to give the world the finger if you choose. Your definition applies to the RE part of the equation.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 03:34 PM   #23
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by frayne
Right and they are on dial up too !
How can you tell when someone is on dial-up?
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 03:35 PM   #24
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

... house is "in"; pension (and SS) is out ... would be another .5M if "in" (using Bogle's formula of 14 X annual payment).

Sounds like Bogle's formula figures you'll only collect for 14 years (on average). *This makes sense to me.

BTW, *a graph (line/bar) would be nice when the dust settles)
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 03:49 PM   #25
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryan
.
BTW, a graph (line/bar) would be nice when the dust settles)
Turn your monitor on its left side to get the bar chart.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 03:55 PM   #26
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Turn your monitor on its left side to get the bar chart.
Rotating your head 90 degrees clockwise also produces the same result.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 04:04 PM   #27
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Rotating your head 90 degrees clockwise also produces the same result.
Then pull the front of your underpants up as high as you can and open the fly so that you can see the results exactly right.

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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 04:29 PM   #28
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
Agreed, but you could say the same thing about your stock portfolio.* In that case, only the dividend paying stocks would count.* Likewise, in the case of real estate, only property that you're renting would count.
No, you would not ONLY count your dividend-paying stocks. You would count ALL the stocks you plan on using in the future, whether by dividend-generating OR by selling them.

And no, you would not ONLY count real estate you are renting. You would count ALL real estate that you plan on using in the future, whether by renting it OR by selling it.

If you buy an asset that will not generate income in the future, like a pencil that you plan on sharpening to it's useful end, it is an asset that should show on your personal balance sheet, but it is NOT an investment that would qualify as part of your portfolio to be used for retirement because it will never generate any income for you.

Similarly, if you plan on living in your home until you die without selling or renting it, it should be part of your balance sheet, but it should not be part of your portfolio from which you will be applying your 4% SWR.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 04:51 PM   #29
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
No, you would not ONLY count your dividend-paying stocks.* You would count ALL the stocks you plan on using in the future, whether by dividend-generating OR by selling them.

And no, you would not ONLY count real estate you are renting.* You would count ALL real estate that you plan on using in the future, whether by renting it OR by selling it.

If you buy an asset that will not generate income in the future, like a pencil that you plan on sharpening to it's useful end, it is an asset that should show on your personal balance sheet, but it is NOT an investment that would qualify as part of your portfolio to be used for retirement because it will never generate any income for you.

Similarly, if you plan on living in your home until you die without selling or renting it, it should be part of your balance sheet, but it should not be part of your portfolio from which you will be applying your 4% SWR.
Agreed.

Basically anything you own that can be sold for cash, either now or in the future is on the asset side of your new worth equation....the other side any and all debt. Subtract the two and there is your "official" net worth. Income streams are not counted unless they can be converted into a lump sum while you are still alive or while your spouse is still living since we are talking about "shared" net worth here I presume.

I guess if you split hairs, there could be things in your estate that are not part of your net worth. I think that is where you put the pencils, stuffed animals, 20 year old TV sets (yes I have one) and other non-income producing items. However, if your business is selling these items as part of your business inventory then I guess they would be part of your business net worth?
I will let you experts go at this one. :P
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 06:50 PM   #30
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

If your house is worth a million dollars and you spend all your other assets and you're so feeble that your kids put you in a nursing home, do you think your kids are going to sell your house?

house = asset . . . when you're broke you will sell it.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 07:31 PM   #31
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by riskaverse
If your house is worth a million dollars and you spend all your other assets and you're so feeble that your kids put you in a nursing home, do you think your kids are going to sell your house?

house = asset . . . when you're broke you will sell it.*
Your house is ALWAYS an asset. However, in your case, it doesn't become part of your "investment assets" until you go broke.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 09:08 PM   #32
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

I'd like to suggest one more survey . . . one that might actually be more relevant than a "net worth" survey. How about a survey comparing "cash flow" in 2005 dollars. I suggest that "retirement cash flow" be computed as follows: (investment net worth) x (fixed percentage (say 7.5% or whatever is reasonable)) + pension payments + social security payments + any other regular income payments = "retirement cash flow". This survey would factor out the house (and other non-income generating assets) in the net worth equation and give a clearer picture of how much income the retirees & retiree-wantabees in this forum have to fund their ER plans and dreams. I'd suggest sticking with the same fixed percentage for everyone for the "investment net worth" component so that we are comparing "apples & apples". Any one interested?

Robert
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 09:11 PM   #33
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Silly discussion. And we had it 1M times before. Net worth (which is being asked for, nothing else) is for all purposes assets - liabilities. Future income streams (or costs such as health insurance) are not to be involved.

We can then have a seperate discussion of the VALUE of future income streams - and how it certainly is important to FIREes but the OP question was pretty clear.

Cheers!
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 09:13 PM   #34
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Good idea Robert - but make sure you make the rules CRYSTAL clear as there will always be someone trying to put a pin in the ballon... Cheers!
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 09:29 PM   #35
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

These are becomming wothless to those thinking about RE.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 10:05 PM   #36
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

I'm happy to see that nobody has complained about the absence of a $10M+ bracket.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 10:20 PM   #37
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Hey what about if I have more than $10M
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 10:25 PM   #38
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Should have half the brackets to get a more graphical and meaningful curve
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 10:49 PM   #39
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Ahhh, look at that. I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm the sole person with a negative net worth. Damn those student loans.
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey
Old 11-17-2005, 10:58 PM   #40
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Re: The New Improved 2005 ER Forum Current Net Worth Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
Ahhh, look at that. I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm the sole person with a negative net worth. Damn those student loans.
Scum! Off our board!

....just kidding. I find it reveals a lot more about a person's character when they admit a shortcoming rather than crow of success. I do far too much of the latter.
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