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09-12-2010, 07:54 AM
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#2
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,693
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If money is taken from a MF and put into an ETF in lets say the S&P 500 fund or ETF does that create a taxable event?
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09-12-2010, 08:06 AM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454
If money is taken from a MF and put into an ETF in lets say the S&P 500 fund or ETF does that create a taxable event?
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Interesting question. Not sure... but I suspect selling is a taxable event (in a taxable account).
This is probably something that advisers will use to manage portfolios (cheaply) and make more profit by lowering their cost.
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09-12-2010, 08:20 AM
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454
If money is taken from a MF and put into an ETF in lets say the S&P 500 fund or ETF does that create a taxable event?
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It depends:
Converting a Vanguard Index Fund to an ETF without Paying Taxes
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No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA
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09-12-2010, 09:48 AM
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco
And if you have VG Brokerage account... apparently the trades are free.
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So... how's Vanguard's brokerage? And do they trade options?
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Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
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09-12-2010, 10:34 AM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,693
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Thanks Martha, I can't seem to open your link up. Can you help?
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09-12-2010, 11:16 AM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454
Thanks Martha, I can't seem to open your link up. Can you help?
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It opens for me so I don't know what is wrong. Anyway, the article quotes this from Vanguard (which you should of course check): Shareholders of Vanguard stock index funds that offer Vanguard ETFs may convert their conventional shares to Vanguard ETFs of the same fund. This conversion is generally tax-free, although some brokerage firms may be unable to convert fractional shares, which could result in a modest taxable gain. (Bond ETFs do not allow the conversion of bond index fund shares to bond ETF shares of the same fund.)
Vanguard will charge $50 for each conversion. (This fee is waived for Flagship clients.) Your brokerage provider may charge an additional fee for this service. For more information, contact your brokerage firm, or call 866-499-8473.
Once you convert to Vanguard ETFs, you cannot convert back to conventional shares. Also, conventional shares held through a 401(k) account cannot be converted to Vanguard ETFs.
EDIT: I couldn't find this info on the vanguard site but I didn't look too hard. I did find this: " For more information about Vanguard ETF Shares, including information on converting conventional shares to Vanguard ETF Shares, call 866-499-8473."
__________________
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No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA
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09-12-2010, 11:20 AM
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#8
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
So... how's Vanguard's brokerage? And do they trade options?
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It has been awhile since I used VG as a broker... I stopped when I sold all of our individual stocks. Right now I only use mutual funds and work directly with the fund companies. Back when I used them to buy/sell stock, they used a 3rd party for that service. At the time I think they used Pershing to clear trades. As far as I know you can trade most securities.
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/wha...rvices-account
I was not a frequent trader... but I did not have any problems with the it.
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09-12-2010, 12:10 PM
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#9
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,693
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Thanks Martha!
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09-12-2010, 01:26 PM
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#10
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco
And if you have VG Brokerage account... apparently the trades are free.
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Confirmed with a purchase just now commission =$0.
The VOO expense ratio is listed at 0.06% - wow. Thanks for the tip, Chinaco.
I'm not sure if was necessary, but I was careful to use a limit order - the OTC bid /ask spread for after-hours trading is huge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
So... how's Vanguard's brokerage? And do they trade options?
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Yes, they do trade options.
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09-12-2010, 02:36 PM
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco
I was not a frequent trader... but I did not have any problems with the it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown Harry
The VOO expense ratio is listed at 0.06% - wow. Thanks for the tip, Chinaco.
Yes, they do trade options.
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Thanks. Vanguard has always annoyed me with its rock-bottom customer service and anti-trader attitude, but this may be different. And I like selling covered calls on shares I wouldn't mind rebalancing anyway.
I'm going to have to see how Vanguard does on matching three ETFs I'm holding with Fidelity now-- a Dow Dividend (DVY), a MSCI index (EFV), and a small-cap value (IJS). I can leave the Berkshire shares at Fidelity.
__________________
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Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
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09-12-2010, 02:56 PM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 8,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
So... how's Vanguard's brokerage? And do they trade options?
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My guess is for occasional trading it's very good. If your the sort of trader that wants special trading software and maybe fairly sophisticated it may not work out.
I think that VG spreads are very good on a relative basis but not a lot of data there. I've used their brokerage for trading ETF's, almost all VG's ETF's. Nowadays I don't try to outguess the market i.e. I just place limit orders at the bid or ask. Executions are generally quick and painless. Sorry, I don't use options.
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09-12-2010, 03:39 PM
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#13
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
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I hope they cover the international stock indexes and domestic and international bond markets next.
Rock bottom cost and broad diversification.
The final category would be an ETF of ETFs covering several global risk based allocation strategies.
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09-12-2010, 03:43 PM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco
I hope they cover the international stock indexes and domestic and international bond markets next.
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?
Vanguard already has lots of etf's in these areas. They've been covered for a while.
VEU, VSS, VEA, VWO, BND, etc.
Not an int'l bond fund unless it is in the new batch.
Nor an int'l value fund like EFV.
VBR is a replacement for IJS.
But if you want free trades of all ETFs, just switch to WellsFargo and abandon both Vanguard and Fidelity.
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09-12-2010, 03:53 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
?
Vanguard already has lots of etf's in these areas. They've been covered for a while.
VEU, VSS, VEA, VWO, BND, etc.
Not an int'l bond fund unless it is in the new batch.
Nor an int'l value fund like EFV.
VBR is a replacement for IJS.
But if you want free trades of all ETFs, just switch to WellsFargo and abandon both Vanguard and Fidelity.
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By jove you're right!
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09-12-2010, 04:24 PM
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#16
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 95
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Interesting that every one of these ETF's are 50 bucks a share!!! How the heck did THAT happen??
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09-12-2010, 04:24 PM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 8,797
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What I like about the Vanguard MSCI based funds and ETF's (like VTV, VOE, VBR -- large cap value, mid-cap value, small cap value) is the existence of actual index data going back to about 1992. You can get that on the MSCI site.
Is there any good index data for some years back for these new S&P indexes? Or are retail investors just suppose to imagine the new index behavior under various past markets? My first guess is the data exists but maybe is only available to subscribers of S&P services i.e. "professionals". But I'd prefer to be proved wrong on this.
Maybe this is a partial answer to my question. I find the iShares S&P Midcap Value 400 here iShares S&P MidCap 400 Value Index Fund (IJJ): Overview - iShares . When comparing the performance of IJJ (monthly returns Excel sheet) versus the Vanguard Midcap-Value fund (VOE or VMVIX), the total return for Mar-01 to Aug-10 is 177% for IJJ and 358% for VOE. For the last 12 months IJJ is up 9.8% versus 12.2% for VOE. Maybe this MSCI index is more value tilted then S&P? Why would I want S&P?
Another clue is that M* shows IJJ's centroid (in the style box) to be somewhat smaller cap but less valuey then VOE. VOE's centroid is squarely in the middle of their mid-value box.
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09-13-2010, 06:04 PM
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#18
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
It opens for me so I don't know what is wrong. Anyway, the article quotes this from Vanguard (which you should of course check): ...
Vanguard will charge $50 for each conversion. (This fee is waived for Flagship clients.) Your brokerage provider may charge an additional fee for this service. For more information, contact your brokerage firm, or call 866-499-8473.
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Martha, the article you quoted was from '07, I believe Vanguard doesn't charge the $50 conversion fee for non-Flagship clients anymore. Here is the current link (second question from the end):
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/content/Funds/FundsVIPERWhatAreVIPERSharesJSP.jsp
I'm not too impressed with their brokerage service. No problems with its execution or anything, just the slightly quirky interface. I trade *very* infrequently and the last time I executed a trade was when they were still using Pershing.
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09-15-2010, 11:03 AM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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VOO is going to have a tough time. SPY is the most actively traded ETF in the world, what's going to make VOO better? Seems to me a little late to the party in some aspects............
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09-15-2010, 03:28 PM
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#20
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
VOO is going to have a tough time. SPY is the most actively traded ETF in the world, what's going to make VOO better? Seems to me a little late to the party in some aspects............
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Good question.
If VOO shares are thinly traded, it could lead to a wider discount against the NAV...
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