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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 03:41 PM   #161
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Risk vs. reward is alive in well, IMHO
That's just how they want you too think and "feel" about it.

Yes, in a marginal way it is still there. But risk is BS. The Rich avoid it. That's what being Rich is all about. Risk is for the saps and smallfry. Also, any risk that ends up via the lottery system *making you rich is also that which will break you or keep you from evmn being minimally succsessful. It's the same thing. So it's not risk and reward . It's just risk.* Reward is merely a promise. Somethat that when it happens you like to take credit for.

But Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about recently., (I forget what the hell it started off as ha ha ). We are talking about those who DO dig the ditches for whatever comes of it.

The work/risk/responsibility Class *who has nothing and can achieve nothing compared to The Having Class. The Owning Class. The No Work/Risk/responsibility/ Big Government Class

Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 03:45 PM   #162
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by razztazz
What they are did was profit form the work of others via ownership of the rights to their output. A government program.* Tell me they all simply, with their own 2 hands and brain power, created that wealth?* Of course they didn't.

Second.. they did what they did and it PAID OFF. What's the old stat about businesses? 80% fail in 2 yrs?* Obviously they won* something of a lottery in there. They beat the odds.* Of course they did.* Now ask yourself, can EVERYBODY beat the odds? No, of course not.* Apparently only 20% are even still in business after 2 yrs.* So, looks like the game is rigged one way or the other. Not assigning blame, or pointing a finger but* just don't bull**** me with copyrighted tales of derring-do in the field of striving and achieving and "personal productivity."

I gotta say it. *You are one sick puppy. *You act like thse who "win"
by brainpower, willpower, or luck deserve to be punished. *I think they
are heroes and should be acknowledged as such. *BTW, of course
everyone can't "beat the odds". *That's the whole idea of free market
capitalism, which you obviously don't understand.

JG
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 03:48 PM   #163
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by razztazz
That's just how they want you too think and "feel" about it.

Yes, in a marginal way it is still there. But risk is BS. The Rich avoid it. That's what being Rich is all about. Risk is for the saps and smallfry.* Also, any risk that ends up via the lottery system *making you rich is also that which will break you or keep you from evmn being minimally succsessful. It's the same thing. So it's not risk and reward . It's just risk.* Reward is merely a promise. Somethat that when it happens you like to take credit for.

But Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about recently., (I forget what the hell it started off as ha ha ). We are talking about those who DO dig the ditches for whatever comes of it.

The work/risk/responsibility Class *who has nothing and can achieve nothing compared to The Having Class. The Owning Class. The No Work/Risk/responsibility/ Big Government Class

Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about
I am reminded of a speech by GWB. He said "This is my base, the 'haves'
and the 'have mores'." I have very little compared to his base, but I love it that they made it and have it, and if I was 20 years younger I could have it too.

JG
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 03:53 PM   #164
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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I gotta say it. *You are one sick puppy. *You act like thse who "win" by brainpower, willpower, or luck deserve to be punished. *I think they are heroes and should be acknowledged as such. *BTW, of course everyone can't "beat the odds". *That's the whole idea of free market
capitalism, which you obviously don't understand.
Nope. You never read what people write here, do you? I don't think ANYBODY should be punished. That's my whole point. *And winning my brainpower/luck/willpower? Why would that make someone a hero? *THAT would be a sign of "Sick-puppiness" to me. Truly arrested development. *You "worship" people who got lucky? *You worship people who didn't get wiped out by things beyond their control?
That's SICK *beyond hell, man. No wonder you couldn't keep a business running.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 03:57 PM   #165
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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[I have very little compared to his base, but I love it that they made it and have it, and if I was 20 years younger I could have it too./quote]

Missed the point again. That kind of wealth is not acquired by work. It's acquired by Government programs. And LUCK. Whoopee! Let's worship them

As far as the rest of your statement: I can only infer you have taken up building model airplanes
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 04:13 PM   #166
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

Look.................I am happy for the wealthy, no matter how they got
it. This "Oh the poor oppressed working class!" does nothing for me.
Someone has to do the manual labor. Someone has to do the
thinking. The brains will win every time. Accept it or be a
miserable whiner. Your choice.

JG
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 04:17 PM   #167
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by Laurence
Are you saying the opportunity to create vast sums of wealth are gone?* I believe Forbes just published it's list of the richest, and the top 4-5 are all "new money"-Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Buffet, Michael Dell....they all started small business style and are now at the top of the heap!
The NY Times recently had an article about the Forbes 400 list. Basically, it hasn't changed much in the last few years. The rich on the list just keep getting richer, and there were very few new people on the list this year. They found one around #248 -- a farmer who started a new cigarette company a few years ago and then sold it for a billion or so. So, it's still possible to get filthy rich if you pick the right niche.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 04:19 PM   #168
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by razztazz
Nope. You never read what people write here, do you? I don't think ANYBODY should be punished. That's my whole point. *And winning my brainpower/luck/willpower? Why would that make someone a hero? *THAT would be a sign of "Sick-puppiness" to me. Truly arrested development. *You "worship" people who got lucky? *You worship people who didn't get wiped out by things beyond their control?
That's SICK *beyond hell, man. No wonder you couldn't keep a business running.
Just a quickie............I never ran a business that I couldn't keep running,
and I ran several. *And I repeat.........I don't "worship" people, but luck is part of the game. *If you "get lucky", good for you. *To a very large extent,
life is just "luck" anyway.

JG
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 04:20 PM   #169
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by wabmester
The NY Times recently had an article about the Forbes 400 list.* * Basically, it hasn't changed much in the last few years.* *The rich on the list just keep getting richer, and there were very few new people on the list this year.* * They found one around #248 -- a farmer who started a new cigarette company a few years ago and then sold it for a billion or so.* * So, it's still possible to get filthy rich if you pick the right niche.
May it ever be thus.

JG
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 04:27 PM   #170
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Someone has to do the manual labor
So let The Rich do it. They get all the money. They ought to be worth it.

And somebody else can do the thinking. Doesn't have to be the Government Protected Crowd. Are you saying it is they and ONLY they who can think?

You can call people whiners when they dont agree with you, if you wnat but that only makes you: A) A transparent grouch or B) Wrong again
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 04:42 PM   #171
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

This is the weirdest thread yet, and there have been a few. Here we have a bunch of fairly young retired people, or people who have a realistic shot at achieving that, who got into this position through a bit better than average skills and good work and saving habits in the USA, telling us how little opportunity is available in the USA?

Are you guys drunk?

Ha
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 04:59 PM   #172
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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This is the weirdest thread yet, and there have been a few. Here we have a bunch of fairly young retired people, or people who have a realistic shot at achieving that, who got into this position through a bit better than average skills and good work and saving habits in the USA, telling us how little opportunity is available in the USA?

Are you guys drunk?Ha
It is exactly because I was able to do what I have done that caused me to realize the serendipitous nature of any level of success. And how much of it was not due to ME but simply what happend or didn't happen to me. Anybody can work. Nearly everybody does. So work isn't the answer, now is it?

And my modest level of success does not put me in the rareified plateau of the uberrich. As to the extent referred to in this thread, no I am not at all particularly successful And I had to WORK for even that much!

But again, that is not the recent thrust of this thread. It goes way beyond simply digging the ditch a few hours more each day and getting "richer" than the "average" ditch digger next to you.

I never said there was little opportunity in the USA today.
Even in the old 2nd World there was opportuity for opportunity seekers and others lucky enough to find it
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 05:41 PM   #173
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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It is exactly because I was able to do what I have done that caused me to realize the serendipitous nature of any level of success. And how much of it was not due to ME but simply what happend or didn't happen to me. Anybody can work. Nearly everybody does. So work isn't the answer, now is it?
I guess that I woudnt agree with this. I think if you did an audit of people's lives, you would find opportunities lost (even for the more successful folks on this site) and it had little to do with luck. I believe even the most average person has some kind of skill and can educate themselves but many dont care to or just feel comfortable going down the same road. I think a good comparison is a common thread here of why people want to consume and work until they are dead (this a value choice, but how is the guy that FIRE's always "lucky" when both had the same choices and opportunity).
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 05:44 PM   #174
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by maddythebeagle
I think if you did an audit of people's lives, you would find opportunities lost (even for the more successful folks on this site) and it had little to do with luck.
The harder I work, the luckier I get.
* * * * *-- Samuel Goldwyn
-- or maybe it was Stephen Leacock.

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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 05:54 PM   #175
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by razztazz
Anybody can work. Nearly everybody does. So work isn't the answer, now is it?
Never met a rich person who didn't work - and I know plenty.* I know there are some people who inherited their wealth, but an awful lot of people who worked hard for it too.* I know Bill Gates didn't make his pile all by himself, but how many 100+ hour weeks do you think he logged getting there?* And how many people would have quit long before he did?* There is not one person on this board who will ever be worth $billion because every single one of us would retire long before then.* Life is about choices and consequences, and yes, some luck.* But driven people can overcome bad luck whereas others let circumstances get the better of them.

I also know an awful lot of lazy people who spend most of their time bitching about how much money everyone else has.* They'll never be rich because they think the game is rigged and someone else is holding them back - sounds familiar, huh?
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 06:05 PM   #176
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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. I think if you did an audit of people's lives, you would find opportunities lost (even for the more successful folks on this site) and it had little to do with luck.
When *everybody always knows beforehand how things will turn out based on their choices, *and everybody has the same menu to choose from, then your *position would hold.

Otherwise, all the choice making and opportunity taking is a roll of the dice. *Everything is mostly luck EVEN when you work hard and strive and take opportunities that are presented. (Of course you cannot take the oportunities that are not presented to you.) *If you do not control the outcome from thr begining you are just -there-. *There are more hard working striving smart ambitious people out there who will never do more than make a living. Maybe a great living but just a living. There will be no mega wealth for them and that is what we are discussing here. Not grandma's old saws about "trying hard" Unless you champion clairvoyance along with work.

Quote:
I believe...
Uh huh. I thought so. Beliving makes it so. Counteracts all the things that are beyond one's own control
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 06:08 PM   #177
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Never met a rich person who didn't work - and I know plenty. I know there are some people who inherited their wealth, but an awful lot of people who worked hard for it too. I know Bill Gates didn't make his pile all by himself, but how many 100+ hour weeks do you think he logged getting there? And how many people would have quit long before he did? There is not one person on this board who will ever be worth $billion because every single one of us would retire long before then. Life is about choices and consequences, and yes, some luck. But driven people can overcome bad luck whereas others let circumstances get the better of them.

I also know an awful lot of lazy people who spend most of their time bitching about how much money everyone else has. They'll never be rich because they think the game is rigged and someone else is holding them back - sounds familiar, huh?
Once again somebody responds to an entirely different conversation that the one I am holding

And I doubt you know ANY of the rich people we have been discussin here. Satistcially it's all but impossible.

You know working people. That's who you know.
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 06:17 PM   #178
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by razztazz
So let The Rich do it. They get all the money.* They ought to be worth it.

And somebody else* can do the thinking.* Doesn't have to be the Government Protected Crowd. Are you saying it is they and ONLY they who can think?

You can call people whiners when* they dont agree with you, if you wnat but that only makes you: A) A transparent grouch* or B) Wrong again
I am a grouch but seldom wrong How about a metaphor
(razztazz, you could look it up) . In one of my fav. movies
('The Edge') Anthony Hopkins character says "Most people who die
in the wilderness fail to do the one thing that could save their life.
Thinking!" It's the same with ER, and dare I say it?...............in many
cases, success in life generally.

JG

JG
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 06:22 PM   #179
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by razztazz
Once again somebody responds to an entirely different conversation that the one I am holding

And I doubt you know ANY of the rich people we have been discussin here. Satistcially it's all but impossible.

You know working people. That's who you know.
Man, what are you smokin' ?? I know lots of rich people, some older than me and almost all hard workers; still working in many cases.
BTW, I don't know what rich people you are "discussin" nor do I care.

Get a grip man!

Elvis has left the building..............

JG
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!
Old 09-26-2005, 06:54 PM   #180
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Re: NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

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Originally Posted by davew894
Nobody minds working when they are working for themselves... and guiding their laborers to more and more profit for themselves, and for this I say 'have at it.'* But it is those governmental policies, put in place by the wealthy, that prevent the rest of the population from achieving the same level of success.* That is where the problem lies and where it has lied for thousands of years.* No normal people are necessarily against working hard... they are against working hard when the deck is purposefully stacked against them and virtually requires such service be provided to those who control the resources and the law.
How about a more specific example of what you are saying here? Who is stacking the deck against you and in what way?

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