No Brainer? Roth 401K vs Taxable

[BigBob]

Background:
I fully fund a Roth IRA for myself and DW and am funding a Roth 401K above the corporate match (but under the max). I plan to RE in 8 years at 55, and from age 55 to 59.5 use money in Taxable accounts and Roth IRA (it may be likely that I will need to draw some from my contributions).

Is there anything I am missing that I might want to consider that would have me save in a Taxable account versus what I am doing now, saving above the company match in the Roth 401k?

I welcome any comments.
-Bob

[LOL!]

You are missing that you will be in a much lower tax bracket when you are retired, so you should be maxing your 401k and not your Roth 401k. Here's how it works: You put $15,500 into your 401k and do not pay any taxes on it. When you are retired at age 55, you can earn more than $16,000 a year tax-free, so you withdraw from 401k tax-free. Tax-free money now; tax-free money in the future.

You can also convert some of your money to a Roth and pay a lower tax rate then.

If you wait to convert until you are receiving SS benefits, then you may end up paying more taxes because more of your SS benefits will be taxed.

Run your own numbers to see what I mean, but I don't think a Roth 401k is a good idea for early retirees.

[EngineeringMyFinances]

Here's something you should be aware of. If you leave employment after Jan 1 of the year you turn 55, whether their choice or yours, you are able to withdraw money from the retirement plan sponsored by that employer without penalty. If you think you will stay with your current employer until then tax-advantaged accounts before current-taxable accounts is a no brainer. And even if you don't stay with them, there's the 72t option.

As to whether the tax-advantaged savings should be tax-deferred or Roth, that takes a bit more study of your own situation -- particularly how much you already have as tax-deferred. But it probably will come out tax-deferred as LOL suggests.

[hova22]

Interesting thoughts LOL. I guess i had always imagined saving early and retiring at a higher standard of living. Very good point though that those considering early retirement really will need to earn at or below what they did in their w*rking years to be comfortable (a large portion of income no longer needs to be put aside for retirement).

[BigBob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOL! You are missing that you will be in a much lower tax bracket when you are retired, so you should be maxing your 401k and not your Roth 401k. Here's how it works: You put $15,500 into your 401k and do not pay any taxes on it. When you are retired at age 55, you can earn more than $16,000 a year tax-free, so you withdraw from 401k tax-free. Tax-free money now; tax-free money in the future.

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure I will be in a lower tax bracket(who knows what the gummint will do), as I plan to draw money from a pension(about 16K) and then my own resources to a total of about $40k per year, which currently is 15% bracket. But what you said made me reconsider, as I would like to stay in the 15% bracket NOW, and I may need to divert some more from a regular 401K to keep me in this bracket.

Also, unless I am mistaken, I don't think I can withdraw from 401k till 59.5 (unless I do a SEPP, which I don't want to do).

[ats5g]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBob Thanks for the reply. I am not sure I will be in a lower tax bracket(who knows what the gummint will do), as I plan to draw money from a pension(about 16K) and then my own resources to a total of about $40k per year, which currently is 15% bracket. But what you said made me reconsider, as I would like to stay in the 15% bracket NOW, and I may need to divert some more from a regular 401K to keep me in this bracket. Also, unless I am mistaken, I don't think I can withdraw from 401k till 59.5 (unless I do a SEPP, which I don't want to do).

Read your 401(k)'s summary plan description, which HR should have. Most 401(k)'s I've seen allow employees that separate from service after age 55 to begin withdrawals from the 401(k).

[BigBob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngineeringMyFinances Here's something you should be aware of. If you leave employment after Jan 1 of the year you turn 55, whether their choice or yours, you are able to withdraw money from the retirement plan sponsored by that employer without penalty. If you think you will stay with your current employer until then tax-advantaged accounts before current-taxable accounts is a no brainer. And even if you don't stay with them, there's the 72t option.

Thanks for this tidbit that I am sure I heard somewhere but it didn't sink in.
So it is possible without the SEPP/72t to withdraw without the penalty, given these conditions.

So now I feel comfortable with still sticking it into the 401K, and now I need to do some more research into Roth vs regular 401K, which I know there are numerous resources(of which I have some from when I signed up w/VG).

My gut feel is that I need to figger out the amount needed to put in the regular 401K to drop me into the 15% bracket, then the remainder into the Roth 401K. If things remained the same(tax bracket wise), I believe it could not hurt with this approach. If tax brackets creeped up in the future, this approach turns out even better.
-bob

[BigBob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ats5g Read your 401(k)'s summary plan description, which HR should have. Most 401(k)'s I've seen allow employees that separate from service after age 55 to begin withdrawals from the 401(k).

ats5g,
You are right. My SPD says "If you receive a distribution or withdrawal before you reach age 59½ and do not roll over the distribution to an IRA or similar plan within 60 calendar days, you may be subject to a special 10% excise tax in addition to regular income taxes as a penalty for early distribution. This penalty does not apply if a distribution is made after separation from service after you attain age 55..."
Thanks.

[hova22]

good stuff

[Animorph]

What happens to Roth tax benefits if the U.S. switches to some sort of national value added or consumption tax instead of income taxes? I feel a little better having some taxes paid already and some deferred. No telling what taxes will look like tomorrow.

Dan

[teejayevans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animorph What happens to Roth tax benefits if the U.S. switches to some sort of national value added or consumption tax instead of income taxes? I feel a little better having some taxes paid already and some deferred. No telling what taxes will look like tomorrow. Dan

Do you really think the politicians are going to let all that IRA money that
was never taxed remain untaxed. Even if we went to VAT system, you can
count on IRAs still have to pay some kind of tax at some point.
TJ