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Nothing quick about getting rich with real estate
Old 03-01-2005, 07:06 PM   #1
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Nothing quick about getting rich with real estate

Interesting article about real estate investing methods.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...ate/P77333.asp

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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-02-2005, 05:50 AM   #2
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Agreed, there is nothing quick about getting rich in real estate. The only people get rich at these seminars are the ones putting on the seminar (or infomercials).

Having said that, you can absolutely reach financial independence using real estate, sometimes much earlier than just savings (investing) alone. I'm proof of that! I have made over 1 million dollars in real estate in the last 9 years and it's what enabled me to retire at 36 years old. 8) In order to do this, though, you must be willing (have the risk tolerance) to use leverage and you must educate yourself about real estate in general and the your local market. I had a property manager on most of mine, but it was still a lot of hard work.

Tryan is another example of a board member that will be retiring soon in his 40s from real estate (with 2mil NW). I hope there are others...

Beachbumz
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-02-2005, 07:26 AM   #3
 
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Quote:
Interesting article about real estate investing methods.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...ate/P77333.asp

Yes, that article is about wannabe millionaires that sit through a 3-day course taught by a flake and think that is all they have to do to make it. They probably only have 3 days to spare anyway and think that is all they ever have to put in it. The folks that make in real estate or any other business know better than going to some 3-day expensive pump seminar and think they are done. Everything takes time, due diligence and a lot of effort.

Vicky
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-02-2005, 08:14 AM   #4
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

I have been interested in investing in real estate however my expierence is limited to buying my residences. Any good books to read out there?
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-02-2005, 10:50 AM   #5
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

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I have been interested in investing in real estate however my expierence is limited to buying my residences. *Any good books to read out there?
"How I Turned $1,000 into Five Million in Real Estate in My Spare Time" by William Nickerson.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-02-2005, 12:43 PM   #6
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

I had the earlier one by Nickerson - where he only turned a thousand into a million. Paperback - don't have it anymore though.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-03-2005, 10:16 AM   #7
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Nickerson's a classic in any edition.

My personal favorites are: (1) Investing in Real Estate, 4th edition or later, by Andrew McLean & Gary W. Eldred (who's taken over the new editions) and (2) Landlording by Leigh Robinson (7th edition or later).

But another personal real-estate favorite is the movie "Pacific Heights".
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-03-2005, 09:23 PM   #8
 
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

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I have been interested in investing in real estate however my expierence is limited to buying my residences. Any good books to read out there?
"Every Landlord's Legal Guide", Stewart, Warner, and Portman, published by Nolo Press

It'll clue you in to what the hassles will be if you manage your own properties.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-04-2005, 02:39 AM   #9
 
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

I must have about 10 books around here
(never attended one of "those" seminars). The only
title I remember is 'Nothing Down' by Robert Allen
(I think). My knowledge was gained mostly by doing.
I did hold a RE license at one time but never
used it due to lack of time. I agree it can be hard work,
even with hired management. I enjoyed it but it's not
for everyone.

JG
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-04-2005, 07:12 AM   #10
 
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Not only is the nothing quick about getting rich with real estate, there is nothing guaranteed about it either. A little over a year ago, I bought an investment house in my hometown of Portland, Oregon. It's not the best market for rentals, but it's where I live(d).

Everybody told me how brilliant I was, how there is lots of money to be made. That is true. Lots of money HAS been made, by the loan broker (complete scoundrel), my realtor (well meaning but has no clue about taxes and operating costs), my lawyer (who sold me three LLCs at $800 a pop to "protect" me), my accountant (who charged $1000 to do the taxes because he had to fix my creativity in quickbooks), and my property manager (whom I had to hire when my job took me to the east coast).

I had done my best due diligence beforehand, made very conservative estimates and projections. However, every single category of expense has been two to ten times higher than my predictions. Part of this is due to the unexpected move. But most of it is due to "professionals" giving best case scenarios to get me to jump in. If I hold this property for ten to thirty years, I will almost certainly see a reasonable return on my investment. However, based on my new, even more conservative projections, I will likely not see returns any higher than the market average. And it's a giant pain in the ass to manage. Rental income is classified as "passive" income for tax purposes, but it could not be farther from passive. I'd say maybe passive-aggressive, but if I put that in my quickbooks, I'll be in for another $1000 charge from my accountant.

I am strongly considering selling the property and getting back into normal investments. I can't make enough to justify the effort and the liability exposure.

To anybody considering investment property, I strongly suggest you do real research that includes interviews with people who are like you: presumably just working chumps who decided to buy a house or small multi. Do not allow yourself to follow advice of those who will make money when you bite. They will all tell you what they told me: "You are so brilliant."

Buyer beware.

PS I think the market growth will likely slow, so no matter what, if you invest now, you are "buying high". Think twice, and for each thought, think twice again. Think at least 2 to the tenth times. Think once for every percent of profit you think you're going to get.

PPS Because I am dumb but not a complete idiot, I may see a few thousand dollars in profit after this whole event. However, that is not enough to make it worth the time and tears. I can just say: Education is always expensive.

PPPS Good luck to all of you. May you fare better than I have.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-04-2005, 07:31 AM   #11
 
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Man, that's a real horror story. My sympathies.
I must say (again) that I never lost any money worth
mentioning in 30 years of active real estate investing, and I owned practically every kind you can think of, at one time or another. I would have ERed if I had never owned any investment property, but it would have been
much more difficult. I never got rich, but I did well
just dabbling.

JG
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-07-2005, 04:57 PM   #12
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Quote:
*Rental income is classified as "passive" income for tax purposes, but it could not be farther from passive.
There is a special $25,000 allowance. If you or your spouse actively participated in a passive rental activity, you can deduct up to $25,000 of loss from the activity from your nonpassive income.

Management decisions that count as active participation include approving new tenants, deciding on rental terms, approving expenditures, and similar decisions.

See IRS Publication 925, page 3.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-08-2005, 09:38 AM   #13
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

I must live in an area where you can still make money on real estate. My house is valued at 525,000 today and I paid 345,000 in March 2004. I'm thinking about selling it in March 2006 (after the 24 month capitol gains timeframe) and buying another less expensive house.

Next time I'll probably have a mortgage and invest the difference for income. Even if the market stabilizes, I'll be in good shape after I realize my profit from this house.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-24-2005, 01:07 AM   #14
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Seems like there's Property Arbitrage to be had if you have the money or are a risk taker. Some States have appreciated well over 20% a year in the last few years (CA), while other areas are more stagnant (Midwest)
Anyone considering this? Check out :-

www.ofheo.gov/media/pdf/4q04hpi.pdf

TO Beachbumz:
You've mentioned your real-estate success before but never said how much of your ER success was down to selling your CPA biz versus real'estate.

What kind of appreciation did you get on your properties?, what type of properties were they?, how frequently rented etc. Upmarket locations?
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-24-2005, 07:55 AM   #15
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

I've made plenty on real estate here in No Cal. When the bay area got hot and my house had appreciated 40% in 2 years, I moved up to sacramento, which was ice cold at the time. You could buy a nearly new home on .5-1.0 acres for less than the depreciated construction cost of the home alone. And buyers hadnt had an offer for a year or more. Lots of short sales. Yummy.

After 7 up years, sold for roughly 2x what I paid and moved up north a little further...just to the edge of the urban sprawl wave. Now 2 years later with the median prices down in Sac going through the roof, people are looking up this way...house is up 30% since I bought it. And the old 1 lane hwy running from here down to Sac is being widened to four lanes, done next year. At that point, it'll be 10 minutes shorter from here to Sac than from my expensive old neighborhood. Guess what'll happen to prices when all those folks in $1M homes figure out they can get the same sq footage, the same acreage or better, and cut 20 minutes off their round trip commute...at half the price?

Yep...you got it. My house doubles again and we move to the next blossom.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-24-2005, 06:14 PM   #16
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Congratulations th.
How do you see the outlook for the future?

Have historically low interest rates aka cheap money, been the key in house price appreciation in recent times do you think?
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-24-2005, 10:50 PM   #17
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Quote:
How do you see the outlook for the future?

Have historically low interest rates aka cheap money, been the key in house price appreciation in recent times do you think?
Theoretically this runup is sustainable, but the real crap (so to speak) is starting to float to the top of the cesspool.

Low interest rates in Hawaii have reduced mortgage payments to roughly the same % of income seen of mortgage payments in the early 1990s. Although rates are starting to creep up, many homeowners have low-initial-rate ARMs, interest-only mortgages, or even (drool) 40-year loans. So even with rising rates there's probably enough slack in the system to keep feeding the frenzy for another couple years.

But if there's a $75/barrel oil shock or a natural disaster or a major terrorist incident then the new game will be "hot potato". If that happens, I'm not sure that you want to be in the middle of a 1031 exchange...
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-24-2005, 10:55 PM   #18
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Its helped, but I think ridiculously slack lending policies are also in the mix.

I have an unmarried couple buying my wifes old house...$240k (asking price). They can barely raise $1000 for a deposit. We're waiting for the appraisal to see if it appraises for $239K. Not a sure thing. That having been said, you cant even scrape up over a grand and you're buying property? Lotsa luck.

Guy who bought my old McMansion 2 years ago got two banks to do a 1st/2nd for the entire amount. Neither bank even close to the same time zone. When was the last time you saw a bank take a second for the full equity balance on a purchase without owning the first mortgage as well or vice versa?

I told a story earlier about my wife (before we were married) getting a $50k home equity line of credit from an internet bank who never appraised or even looked at the property. "We have a guy in the area who might do a drive by...uh...no, you're about 2 hours away from him, so we'll probably just go by the tax rolls.". Hmm...the property last transacted 14 years prior. House might have burned down or been eaten by boll weevils.

Long bull market. Low rates the last few years. Easy loans. Big kaboom.
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-25-2005, 03:53 AM   #19
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

Hi th! Man you are so right. I have practically no income
and people would just bury me with cash, no questions
asked. I've never seen anything like it. The irony is that
many years ago, I had to beg borrow and scrounge.
To buy our first house, I actually sold my wife's piano
(for you jokers out there that had nothing to do with my
divorce ). So, when I was a borrower, interest rates
were high and money hard to get. Now that I am an
income investor, rates are low and money is loose
as my dog after a leftover chili dinner.

JG
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est
Old 03-25-2005, 04:21 AM   #20
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Re: Nothing quick about getting rich with real est

From todays NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/25/business/25boom.html

From One Exuberance to Another
There are signs real estate has replaced stocks as a favorite way to strike it rich.

Boom Boom
Housing prices have spiked in recent years, reminding some economists of the bull market of the 1990's.

Real estate-crazed Americans have started behaving in ways that eerily recall the stock market obsession of the late 1990's.

In Naples, Fla., some houses have been bought twice in a single day, an early-21st-century version of day trading. Buying stocks on margin has morphed into buying homes with no money down. The over-the-top parties of Internet start-ups have been replaced by flashy gatherings where developers pitch condos to eager buyers.

Five years ago, the cable channel CNBC sometimes seemed like a backdrop to daily American life. Its cheery analysis of the stock market played in offices, in barbershops, even in some bars. Today, "Dude Room," "Toolbelt Diva" and other home-improvement shows are the addictive fare that CNBC's exuberant stock shows once were.

"It just seems like everyone is doing it," Laurie Romano, a 26-year-old self-described real estate investor, said with a giggle as she explained why she was attending an open house this month for the Nexus, a 56-unit building going up in Brooklyn's chic Dumbo neighborhood. She and her fiancé, a dentist, had...

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