Now, that's planning ahead! Not.

[Walt34]

I sometimes wonder if this group is the only one capable of planning past next weekend. Perhaps so.

I just started collecting Social Security retirement. If I’m having so much trouble living on my allotted amount now, at age 65, what’s going to happen later when I have real medical expenses and prices keep skyrocketing? – Patricia

From Ask Stacy.

 

[MBAustin]

Yikes!

 

[dallas27]

One thing we have to remember is that in order for an average intelligence to be a statistic, 50% of people need to be below that line. I'm sure this forum is mostly people above that line, often with good parenting, good childhood health, and good luck.

Unfortunatley, our society has adopted the 401k, your on your own, eat or be eaten, retirement model. A public eduction that teaches nothing of money.

So when i see these people like your article that are so clueless, i think as a system we are failing, to benefit the few like myself, but ultimately it must change or implode. It is the wage slavery that occurred during the gilded age all over again. It ends with suffering for the weak, and excess for those with the most.


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[Live And Learn]

Before we judge, we need to remember that sometimes people are dealt unforeseen blows that they are unable to recover from.

 

[sengsational]

Before we judge, we need to remember that sometimes people are dealt unforeseen blows that they are unable to recover from.

Yep, often with bad parenting, bad childhood health, and bad luck.

 

[dallas27]

Ben and jerry solved this problem. The top paid people can only make 20 times(or something like that) the lowest paid people.

And everyone gets ice cream.

Works for me.


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[robnplunder]

And everyone gets ice cream.

Ouch, I am on diet. I am too dumb to figure out how to eat ice cream and still lose weight .

IMO, a simple majority of people don't plan ahead for their retirement. The rest don't have means to save enough. But if everyone saved like folks in this forum, the economy would have collapsed.

 

[Walt34]

Ouch, I am on diet. I am too dumb to figure out how to eat ice cream and still lose weight .

You too? I haven't figured it out either.

IMO, a simple majority of people don't plan ahead for their retirement.

I see it with so many relatives, and so many like "Patricia" are in for a rude awakening.

We haven't seen him back for a while but there was a guy who'd been delivering pizza for the last 20 years on the board here for a short time and he was close to pulling off a decent retirement. Not lavish by any means, no world cruises in his budget, but he wasn't going to be living in a tent in the woods either. He'd been saving since he was 18, IIRC. His numbers were going to work.

So it can be done.

 

[dallas27]

But if everyone saved like folks in this forum, the economy would have collapsed.

ya, there would be high unemployment, we'd be bailing out banks and car companies alike, probably creating a bond bubble doomed to implode.

Wait a sec....


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[robnplunder]

You too?
We haven't seen him back for a while but there was a guy who'd been delivering pizza for the last 20 years on the board here for a short time and he was close to pulling off a decent retirement. Not lavish by any means, no world cruises in his budget, but he wasn't going to be living in a tent in the woods either. He'd been saving since he was 18, IIRC. His numbers were going to work.

So it can be done.

The guy has my vote for the best intro post of the year. He humbled me with his post. Love to see his follow up posts.

 

[braumeister]

We haven't seen him back for a while but there was a guy who'd been delivering pizza for the last 20 years on the board here for a short time and he was close to pulling off a decent retirement.

That would be:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/pizza-delivery-driver-aiming-at-fire-in-a-few-more-years-72212.html

 

[athena53]

Hey, at least the person in the "Ask Stacy" column waited till age 65 to file for SS!

My mother had a friend who figured she'd get SS when she hit 60-something, even though she apparently didn't have enough of a work record of her own nor a previous marriage long enough to collect on an ex-spouse's record. She was shocked when my mother told her she needed 40 quarters of work, and even then the benefit would likely be small since she worked as a hairdresser.

To Dallas27's point, I was running spreadsheets with financial projections, using varying assumptions for rate of return, SS COLA, age I file for SS, etc. and realized again how fortunate I am that I can do these calculations and I enjoy them. I try not to take that for granted.

 

[calmloki]

Ouch, I am on diet. I am too dumb to figure out how to eat ice cream and still lose weight ....

Have read that using Hariboo sugar free gummy bears as sprinkles will do the trick - or just using them as regular snacks....

do check the reviews on Amazong

 

[JoeWras]

Unfortunatley, our society has adopted the 401k, your on your own, eat or be eaten, retirement model. A public eduction that teaches nothing of money.

True. I get tunnel vision working in high tech where this is at least a halfway decent educational base.

As for education and society: not only is there a lack of education, we are bombarded by advertising that doesn't help much. Think of a typical car advertisement that discusses loans.

 

[growing_older]

I'm in high tech, too, and many co-workers are somewhat on the ball and appear to be saving for retirement. But even among them, a surprising number have read advice about saving at least enough to get the full employer match and talk about how they are maxing out their contributions because they are putting in the full 6% (with 50 cents on the dollar matching from the employer).

Saving 6% is of course better than zero, but it's not going to make a comfortable retirement unless we get extraordinarily favorable sequence of returns. A surprising number are still not saving any, despite the match. A surprising number talk about distrust of the stock market (from 2008) or distrust of Social Security, but still appear to be making no plans at all for any retirement savings of their own.

I think the FIRE crowd is an unusual bunch. Many co-workers talk about their desire to RE, but few if any are taking any positive steps to become FI. I think their best expectation is that on some future job they will hit an IPO jackpot (it is technology after all) but even then they seem to take no practical steps at all to get into such a position that would even be possible.

I do not understand why so many people seem so disconnected between their desire to comfortable retirement (or even dream of ER, which many profess) and the actual steps needed to make that possible, which so few seem to be doing, or even thinking about.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

True. I get tunnel vision working in high tech where this is at least a halfway decent educational base.

As for education and society: not only is there a lack of education, we are bombarded by advertising that doesn't help much. Think of a typical car advertisement that discusses loans.

Hard for the educational establishment to compete with the approximately $175 billion annually spent by the advertising industry in the U.S. trying to get people to spend everything they have and everything they can borrow.

How about a warning with any advertisement something like they have for cigarettes:

[Warning: Purchasing This Product Could be Hazardous to your Financial Health! Do not buy this product or service unless you have saved at least 12% of your annual earnings for retirement]

 

[pb4uski]

......So when i see these people like your article that are so clueless, i think as a system we are failing, to benefit the few like myself, but ultimately it must change or implode. It is the wage slavery that occurred during the gilded age all over again. It ends with suffering for the weak, and excess for those with the most....

You are so right. I just don't understand why "they" kept it a secret that SS will not be enough to live on and that people need to save for retirement. It ain't fair.

 

[dallas27]

Its not a secret, its that many cant grasp the concepts of interest, investment, budgeting, bookeeping. Believe it or not, to gain all this knowledge is pretty hard. Imagine 60 year olds that never got online. What chance did they stand growing up in an era where cigarettes were still safe.


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[jollystomper]

When I started working in 1979, the assumptions were that you would get a good pension, and that and social security would be sufficient. Them the boom years of the 80's and 90's hit, and even with a brief pauses (the 87 market crash and the 1990-91 recession), salaries kept going up and many assumed either their pensions would keep growing, or the demand for workers would continue to raise wages, or they would never have to face unemployment. Even with 401ks available, many (including me for a while) were lulled into the "don't worry about tomorrow, enjoy today" financial mindset.

It is one that is tough to adjust. Even with good parents, health, and luck, not being aware of the changing landscape regarding jobs, wages,pensions, and the market would leave oneself in trouble today. In our case a combination of listening to and watching our elders, and being fearful of "non-stop prosperity", are among things that made the difference for us.

 

[Andre1969]

We haven't seen him back for a while but there was a guy who'd been delivering pizza for the last 20 years on the board here for a short time and he was close to pulling off a decent retirement. Not lavish by any means, no world cruises in his budget, but he wasn't going to be living in a tent in the woods either. He'd been saving since he was 18, IIRC. His numbers were going to work.

So it can be done.

You can actually make pretty good money delivering pizzas, if it's for the right company, in the right neighborhood. When I was recovering from my divorce, I did it for a few years as a second job, from 1996-2001. I tended to average around $16 per hour, take-home. My take-home nowadays, from my full-time, $73.5K per year job, is only about $16.60 per hour!

This isn't really a fair comparison though, as my health insurance is about $100 every two weeks nowadays, and the 401k, to get the federal max, takes about 24%. Still, that delivery job definitely helped out my financial situation, even if I did have a car totaled, along the way...

 

[Andre1969]

But even among them, a surprising number have read advice about saving at least enough to get the full employer match and talk about how they are maxing out their contributions because they are putting in the full 6% (with 50 cents on the dollar matching from the employer).

I wonder if people are starting to get confused by some of that Suze Orman/Dave Ramsey advice, where they tell you that you should at least put enough into your 401k to get the full company match. Then max out a Roth IRA if you qualify. Then, if you still have money to invest, continue putting into the 401k until it's maxed out. Then do after-tax investing.

Maybe a lot of people just hear that first sentence of "put in enough to get the company match" and then their eyes glaze over from the rest?

 

[engprodigy]

I don't think the system is "rigged" or is setup "unfairly" or that a large portion of people are "doomed to fail".

There are probably some that are doomed to fall through the cracks, but no matter what system is implemented I believe that is an inescapable truth.

I know plenty of intelligent people that had good upbringings that do very little financial planning for the future. A lot of the time it is an active choice for instant gratification and not a rigged system.

 

[GregfromTexas]

Patricia might be smart or foolish, I won't judge her because I don't know her or how she got to where she is. Sounds like she's in a pickle though.

Were she here my advice might be...

Social security is mainly intended to supplement other income or maybe keep you alive but not maintaining a lifestyle.

Make a choice now. Redefine your idea of "need" and find a way to be happy living very very modestly (include radical solutions like relocating) -or- seek additional income by working...or a mix of both. I think the latter is entirely feasible. I'd probably recommend self employment vs. say being a WalMart greeter . One example would be working as a Nanny which at least where I live is highly in demand and easily arranged as a less than full time gig.

 

[gozer]

I wonder if people are starting to get confused by some of that Suze Orman/Dave Ramsey advice, where they tell you that you should at least put enough into your 401k to get the full company match. Then max out a Roth IRA if you qualify. Then, if you still have money to invest, continue putting into the 401k until it's maxed out. Then do after-tax investing.

Maybe a lot of people just hear that first sentence of "put in enough to get the company match" and then their eyes glaze over from the rest?

I think you may be right on this. At least for the few that listen at all. I knew far too many that didn't even contribute enough to get the full company match.

Even just the company match might work for some. When my old company dropped the pension for new employees, they gave those people an "enhanced match" 401K. They get a 50% match on up to 15% of their salary. pensioned employees like me only got 50% on the first 6% of salary. At higher salary ranges you couldn't take advantages of the new limits but the majority of employees could. Since so many were not getting the full match before, I doubt the company will have to pay out much on this new offer.