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Old 06-03-2009, 10:38 PM   #121
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Here's another winner from the NYTimes financial pages - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/bu...gage.html?_r=1

The commentary from Reason pretty much covers my feelings about this one - Hit & Run > Seems like every time you turn around there's another hard-luck story that you're gonna hear... - Reason Magazine
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:40 PM   #122
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Now if he had written a book titled
"How to Use Multiple Bankruptcies to Live Like Royalty"
he might have more credibility?!
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:43 AM   #123
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Here's another winner from the NYTimes financial pages - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/bu...gage.html?_r=1

The commentary from Reason pretty much covers my feelings about this one - Hit & Run > Seems like every time you turn around there's another hard-luck story that you're gonna hear... - Reason Magazine"

Boo hoo. So a woman nearing retirement age triples the size of her mortgage, using her house to pay for a new car, pay off credit cards, and pay $20k "mostly" for a new roof. Unless she was taken, there is no way a roof for a two-bedroom condo should cost $20k, so I would suspect some whitewashing here.

The simple fact is that she used her house as an ATM to finance a lifestyle she couldn't afford. While she avers that in her family they don't walk away from financial obligations, that is precisely what she is asking to do. The value of her house dropped and now she want part of her mortgage forgiven. This poor "victim" represents the root cause of the housing crisis - it is less flippers than regular people who figured they could borrow the lifestyle they wanted.

The simple fact is that we all need to readjust our attitudes toward residential real estate. It is not the American Dream, it is not the road to riches, and the value of the house will depend on the ability of a buyer to pay for it.

I am frankly sick of hearing how we have to save peoples' houses and protect property values. This "crisis" was fueled by the mistaken belief that property values always go up. Its well past time for property values fall back into reasonable levels, i.e., those affordable by the average person. And those who cashed out of their houses to buy cars and vacations deserve what they get.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:54 AM   #124
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I actually do feel bad for a lot of the people in these types of articles, despite the bulk resulting from unwise choices as opposed to rotten luck like an injury.

What usually sets me into a dismissive stance is when they point the finger somewhere else instead of taking any slice of the blame.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:09 AM   #125
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Don't you know that its all the fault of the greedy banks?

When friends of mine ask - less so now than in months past - where all the money went that supposedly evaporated from the housing market, I tend to reply that the original borrowers spent it. While banks and brokers and hedge funds made a lot of money from the frothy mortgage market, the lion's share of the money was siphoned off into the pockets of sellers and refinancers. Until those who got themselves in trouble accept part of the blame and stop screaming for the gubmint to bail them out I fear we're destined for a repeat of this fiasco in some other market.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:11 AM   #126
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WOW.... going from buying a condo for less than $78K and now owing more than $140K.... that takes some doing IMO...

I wonder what she would be thinking if this was CREDIT CARD debt I bet she never would have run up that huge amount of credit card debt since it would have been staring her in the face...


That is why I did not want the Texas to allow home equity loans... it leads to people doing what she is doing and then wants to be bailed out...

SOOO, if we really want to get some reforms.... do not allow home equity loans...
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:29 AM   #127
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This guy is a d*uchebag who gave into temptation and peer pressure and assumed that even after the good times ended his high school diploma would let him earn 200+k.

I made in the ballpark what he did during the boom timesworking in the NYC area. I worked in an area that was a long commute but was extremely affluent (think top .1% of the country). There was a Bentley dealership down the block from work and most of the merchants looked at me like I was a homeless person coming in for a handout when I went shopping in my middle class mass merchant clothing. It was very, very, VERY tempting to join in with all the idiot consumption. Buit I resisted. Partially it was because I was wary and partially it was because I just don't enjoy consumption that much. But to suggest that some idiot who bought a $1MM (!) co-op deserves sympathy? Please.
I guess what made me like him more than the book deal guy is that he took a host job in a restaurant instead of whining that the mortgage company took advantage of him. Maybe it was the blue collar background, but he seems like he's coming out of this with hard lessons learned that he caused his troubles instead of being a victim.

Not everyone can be as smart as us, and I suspect that temptations to run with the big dogs has bitten many of these former high-flyers in the assets.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:38 AM   #128
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My guess is the former $200k/yr trader would maximize his earnings by going to another firm and working front office or back-office in trade support. He wouldn't earn much more than $50-75k in NYC, or more like $40-50k in lower cost of living areas. But still a decent salary for one with a high school diploma.

This is assuming he can't go back to making $200k as a floor trader.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:26 PM   #129
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I actually do feel bad for a lot of the people in these types of articles, despite the bulk resulting from unwise choices as opposed to rotten luck like an injury.

What usually sets me into a dismissive stance is when they point the finger somewhere else instead of taking any slice of the blame.
I can feel sorry for them, right up until the time they ask ME to pay for the choices THEY made.

I don't recall any of these people coming up to me a few years ago and saying " I just refinanced my house and got a ton of cash out of it, can I give you some?".



-ERD50
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:53 PM   #130
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If she is going to get all this national publicity, she had better figure out the story of her credit card debt and how she is going to explain it. Seems like she must have had about $40K as far as I can guess.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:10 PM   #131
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WOW.... going from buying a condo for less than $78K and now owing more than $140K.... that takes some doing IMO...

I wonder what she would be thinking if this was CREDIT CARD debt I bet she never would have run up that huge amount of credit card debt since it would have been staring her in the face...


That is why I did not want the Texas to allow home equity loans... it leads to people doing what she is doing and then wants to be bailed out...

SOOO, if we really want to get some reforms.... do not allow home equity loans...
I am starting to agree with this. The way I figure she probably borrowed 80%*77,500=62k and now 12 years latter owes $143K or 81K over 12 years is $562/month. So the real story here is that over the last 12 years her budget spreadsheet should show income =2167/month expense = $2728 and now the rest of us are suppose to bail her out.

Unfortunately this happens all to often, I think one of my sister and husband owe 3 as much now on there house as the bought it 25 years ago.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:28 PM   #132
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Here's another winner from the NYTimes financial pages - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/bu...gage.html?_r=1

The commentary from Reason pretty much covers my feelings about this one - Hit & Run > Seems like every time you turn around there's another hard-luck story that you're gonna hear... - Reason Magazine"

Boo hoo. So a woman nearing retirement age triples the size of her mortgage, using her house to pay for a new car, pay off credit cards, and pay $20k "mostly" for a new roof. Unless she was taken, there is no way a roof for a two-bedroom condo should cost $20k, so I would suspect some whitewashing here.
Agreed! Actually, with a condo, the homeowners' association would take care of the exterior, which would include the roof. Individual condo owners don't/can't do maintenance/repairs on the outside. Possibly the $20,000 was a special assessment that every homeowner had to pay----but that seems unlikely for a condo that was 12 years old. I honestly don't know what roofs cost, but since the cost would be divided among all the homeowners, something smells fishy.....
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:08 PM   #133
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One more think the Az. lady, according to the article she is 63 and refinance in 2007 making her 61 years. WTF was the bank thinking, how does she pay back a 30 year loan she'd have to live 91.

You know maybe it is good thing that it is been so hard for us ER to refi our mortgages.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:27 PM   #134
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One more think the Az. lady, according to the article she is 63 and refinance in 2007 making her 61 years. WTF was the bank thinking, how does she pay back a 30 year loan she'd have to live 91.

You know maybe it is good thing that it is been so hard for us ER to refi our mortgages.
If you have the income, you can get the loan.... my 89 YO mother was going to get a loan for her new condo... and she had the income etc... but when she heard about all the fees etc... just paid cash...

They do not look at age...
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