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Older workers and unemployment
Old 12-19-2011, 03:24 PM   #1
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Older workers and unemployment

Before our illustrious political leaders raise the retirement age they need to address age discrimination. Note this article from the 12/19/11 Wall Street Journal.


Oldest Baby Boomers Face Jobs Bust - WSJ.com
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:05 PM   #2
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That's for sure. The older we get, the harder it is to find work if necessary.

Also, the older we get, the harder it is to work a long day even if just pushing papers. Many people reach at age at which they really need to hang it up.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:23 PM   #3
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I frequently hear people I'm associated with commenting that they will be working until they're in their seventies. Good luck with that. I notice that about sixty is the max at my company.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:31 PM   #4
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Right. Layed off age 49.5. Grump Grump Grump.

To the barricades?

Nah. After discovering this forum I instantly transformed from an 'unemployed old guy' to a super duper ER! Able to recycle dryer sheets par excellance and be really really cheap expense wise.



heh heh heh - others unfortunately may experience different outcomes.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:35 PM   #5
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This is the biggest problem with proposals to raise the SS and Medicare eligibility ages. It's already hard enough for older folks to find and keep a job with rampant age discrimination going on. How exactly is *expanding* the number of older folks who have to work going to help with that? Raising the SS and Medicare eligibility age would see a lot of the "savings" lost to increased unemployment benefits, Medicaid, food stamps and other public assistance.

Not to mention with many workplaces being more stressful than ever in recent history, with the ever-increaseing pressures of fewer workers who are expected to do more work than ever with declining real wages, the burnout rates can only start going way up.

Then again, maybe Medicare can be saved with rat-race stress killing a lot of folks before they even reach 65.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:42 AM   #6
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Then again, maybe Medicare can be saved with rat-race stress killing a lot of folks before they even reach 65.
Maybe that is the unintended consequence bearing with desirable outcome ? Probably it's a good idea to not bank on the SS when doing FIRE calculations.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:01 PM   #7
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My dad always told me, even before I was out of school, "Listen, no matter how important you think you are in your job, the day will come when they just won't need you anymore. You had better prepare now for when that happens." I thought he was exagerating, but it turns out he was right. At 55 the plant closed, and the company didn't need me anymore. But by then I had enough investment real estate to make it on my own. I'm glad I listened to the old man at least that one time. If everyone heeded that message, the economy would flourish around the heightened entrepreneurial activity.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:18 PM   #8
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Tight, you are correct.
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:28 AM   #9
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In the back of my mind, I expect to lose me job in my late 40s or 50s especially if I'm not interested in climbing the corporate ladder. I just feel it's tough for megacorp to pay at the top of the scale when someone else is willing to do it for less. I feel it's the "other" mid-life crisis we are faced with.

As a side note, I've been interviewing for a few openings on my newly created team. The job description lists the need to have 5 - 10 years experience, I'm getting folks with 20+. It's still a tough market out there.

I'm preparing to bail by my early 50s so someone else can have a chance
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:08 AM   #10
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Age discrimination is alive and well, and the only "allowable" discrimination because it's so damned hard to prove. And in some cases old is not that old - my first layoff was at age 50 due to my high salary. I was shocked to learn that 50 was old when I tried to get another job - often I couldn't even land an interview. After landing on my feet it happened a second time for the same reason and by sheer dumb luck landed on my feet again -- that dumb luck was that the hiring person is older than I am so wasn't intimidated by my age/experience.

Megacorps insist it's not age, it's just that they are expense-saving so chop the higher salaries. I intend to bail out within the next year - my friend is my age (59) and intends/needs to work another 6-8 years in a field where he is almost twice the age of his co-workers. I don't think he'll be able to do it.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:23 AM   #11
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Right. Layed off age 49.5. Grump Grump Grump.

To the barricades?

Nah. After discovering this forum I instantly transformed from an 'unemployed old guy' to a super duper ER! Able to recycle dryer sheets par excellance and be really really cheap expense wise.



heh heh heh - others unfortunately may experience different outcomes.
Me too. My layoff came at age 45, 2 1/2 years ago, and I'm sure glad that I have savings and investments. Although 45 was relatively young (I'm now 48), I don't have the same drive to achieve that I used to. I could definitely have gone on meeting the deadlines and producing for the same company had they stayed in business, but I haven't got the mojo to do it all over again for a different company.

I guess if I didn't have savings, I would miraculously be able to dig up that mojo from somewhere
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
This is the biggest problem with proposals to raise the SS and Medicare eligibility ages. It's already hard enough for older folks to find and keep a job with rampant age discrimination going on. How exactly is *expanding* the number of older folks who have to work going to help with that? Raising the SS and Medicare eligibility age would see a lot of the "savings" lost to increased unemployment benefits, Medicaid, food stamps and other public assistance.

Not to mention with many workplaces being more stressful than ever in recent history, with the ever-increaseing pressures of fewer workers who are expected to do more work than ever with declining real wages, the burnout rates can only start going way up.

Then again, maybe Medicare can be saved with rat-race stress killing a lot of folks before they even reach 65.
I believe going forward the work force as a percent of the population is dropping. So it ought to get easier to find jobs. So I'm not at all agreeing that your comments on added costs in other areas are correct. Concerning that the average stress on jobs is getting higher, please provide data that says that's the case. The government has always promised more than they chose to have benficiaries pay for. That lying gig's up. BTW, you expect the young with lower incomes raising families to pay for those lies? If so, I find that cold-hearted. If not, somehow all the promises won't be met & those getting them will need to adjust. We older folks have no claim on excessive support over what society can afford.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:04 AM   #13
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I believe going forward the work force as a percent of the population is dropping. So it ought to get easier to find jobs.
The popular media report that baby boomers are not prepared for retirement, and can't afford to retire and so on. I don't know if that is true. But if it is, and if a significant number of my generation has to work until they die , then I wonder if maybe the work force as a percentage of the population may not drop after all.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:20 AM   #14
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Don't working geezers bring much of the 'age discrimination in employment" that exists today upon themselves? Don't many older workers feel entitled to high wages at the end of their careers even if their actual daily contributions are no longer in line with those wages?

I'd like to see employers, including the biggest employer, the gov't, adopt programs where senior employees who are no longer truly competitive in the job market given the salaries they're commanding a graceful way to "wind down" at the end. And I'd like to see the senioir employees accept the reductions thankfully and to also prepare themselves by keeping up the skill sets that they had mid-career.

An older plant manager, unable to work the long hours and put up with the stress, takes a 50% salary cut and goes back to being a supervisor on one of the production lines.

An older programmer who can't keep up with the pace of the younger folks any longer but who is earning more takes a 50% salary haircut but is given more time to do less sophisticated projects.

Etc. Etc.

Yeah, I know there are issues with this. Among other things, filling jobs that were tradtionally "entry level" with geezers is one problem. Still, I'd like to see both senior employees and employers come to grips with declining productivity at career end by reducing the compensation of senior employees but allowing them to stay on in positions they can still handle.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:56 PM   #15
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Don't working geezers bring much of the 'age discrimination in employment" that exists today upon themselves? Don't many older workers feel entitled to high wages at the end of their careers even if their actual daily contributions are no longer in line with those wages?

I'd like to see employers, including the biggest employer, the gov't, adopt programs where senior employees who are no longer truly competitive in the job market given the salaries they're commanding a graceful way to "wind down" at the end. And I'd like to see the senioir employees accept the reductions thankfully and to also prepare themselves by keeping up the skill sets that they had mid-career.

An older plant manager, unable to work the long hours and put up with the stress, takes a 50% salary cut and goes back to being a supervisor on one of the production lines.

An older programmer who can't keep up with the pace of the younger folks any longer but who is earning more takes a 50% salary haircut but is given more time to do less sophisticated projects.

Etc. Etc.

Yeah, I know there are issues with this. Among other things, filling jobs that were tradtionally "entry level" with geezers is one problem. Still, I'd like to see both senior employees and employers come to grips with declining productivity at career end by reducing the compensation of senior employees but allowing them to stay on in positions they can still handle.
Or you can own part of your business and then you cant get fired. I saw on the morning news today that a stockbrocker who is 106 , yes 106, that still comes to work everyday handling portfolios. Doesnt need a cane either to walk. They asked him if he uses a cell phone and pulled it out and showed it and said he uses it mostly to look on the back of it to remember his own cell phone number that is taped on the back of it. No one can say he didnt earn his SSN!
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:55 PM   #16
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There still seems to be a lot of demand for my skill set and I work part time. I have a backlog of 3-5 months worth of projects. Lately I have noticed that I am always the oldest person in the room at meetings. This has actually been on my mind lately for a reason to call it a day.
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