Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 11:10 AM   #61
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by perinova
The Fed. Government needs to do something.
Be very careful of what you ask !

As you just might get it !
__________________

__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 11:20 AM   #62
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2006
A lot of the evident money is debt that wasn't present a generation ago. Also sending the spouse out to work (two income families v one income family a generation ago)
which is also one reason for inflation since two paychecks means more money chasing things like housing
__________________

__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 04:05 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,382
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

"M. King Hubbert used to point out that the economy of Spain was severely disrupted during the 16th century by the gold and silver from conquests in Mexico and Peru. The gold allowed Spain to import everything from food to luxury goods and the Spanish economic infrastructure withered. After the gold and silver supply slowed down, Spain was never again a major world power." -Ken Deffeyes

Update the centuries, and substitute USA for Spain, and "assume debt" for plunder gold and you have the US today. This is our moment in the sun, just like Spain's was the 16th century. At least the Spaniards went out and stole the gold. We sit here sucking on the big debt teat in the sky.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 04:11 PM   #64
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
At least the Spaniards went out and stole the gold. We sit here sucking on the big debt teat in the sky.

Ha
You would prefer we went around killing Aztecs? I suppose you could ust stick in "Iraqi" and get much the same effect, except that I am not sure what we are getting out of Iraq except body bags and owing more money to our Asian and Middle Eastern creditors.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 05:56 PM   #65
Recycles dryer sheets
perinova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 424
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
You would prefer we went around killing Aztecs? I suppose you could ust stick in "Iraqi" and get much the same effect, except that I am not sure what we are getting out of Iraq except body bags and owing more money to our Asian and Middle Eastern creditors.
Spooky: costofwar.com
__________________
perinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 06:02 PM   #66
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,382
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
You would prefer we went around killing Aztecs?
No, I prefer "diplomacy" to killing the natives. Diplomacy is mostly what Cortez employed with Montezuma. Montezuma was killed by other Aztecs. Cortez took over and ruled mostly by bluff. Before he returned to Spain a hero, he established many mines and farms, arguably leaving the Aztecs better off than he found them.

Bringing it to the present, it is too expensive to run wars without grabbing some spoils of war. That is just Imperialism 101. The neo-cons and their lackey Giorgio seem not to have figured that one out. I guess this should be termed “neo-imperialism”. Imperialism which costs a lot, but offers no offsetting economic benefits.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 06:06 PM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
"The gold allowed Spain to import everything from food to luxury goods and the Spanish economic infrastructure withered. " -
Do you care to offer any evidence that the economic infrastructure has withered?
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 06:17 PM   #68
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,382
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
Do you care to offer any evidence that the economic infrastructure has withered?
No.
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 06:24 PM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
No.


Never let some facts get in the way of strongly held opinions.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 07:26 PM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
Do you care to offer any evidence that the economic infrastructure has withered?
You must not know anyone who used to have a manufacturing job...
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 07:31 PM   #71
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

manufacturing is stronger than ever, maybe not in Detroit but there are a lot of other things we make here. If GM was as efficient as Toyota things would be different.

Maybe if the UAW stopped believing that efficiency means lost jobs and takes a look at Toyota and Honda they would still be relevant.
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 07:32 PM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,382
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go


Never let some facts get in the way of strongly held opinions.
One of the truly wonderful things about retirement is that you only have to research things until you alone are satisfied with your view. It is not that having false views doesn't have sanctions, because as you know investment success depends on a fairly accurate appraisal of the world.

But you don't have to write white papers for anyone. Particularly for someone like you, who has no intention of letting facts get in the way of your strongly held opinions.

No problem for me- my contest is with markets, not with you.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 07:41 PM   #73
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

C'mon, Ha.* *You can't generate any heat or light if you won't argue.*

Aspects of the US economy are fairly strong.* *For example, I believe our exports are increasing.* *It's just that our imports are increasing a bit faster.* * Most of that is due to oil.* *So, if Americans simply stop consuming so many imports and we free ourselves from our dependence on foreign oil, our books will look swell.* *Simple!*
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 09:04 PM   #74
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
manufacturing is stronger than ever
How are you measuring that?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 09:06 PM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
You must not know anyone who used to have a manufacturing job...

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
How are you measuring that?


http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...8453#msg168453
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-29-2006, 09:12 PM   #76
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

That figure includes corp profits from offshore manufacturing. Nice for CEO bonuses, but hardly a job creator, etc.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-30-2006, 06:58 AM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

"Another interesting factoid from the BEA data is that corporate profits from manufacturing have increased 867% (6% CAGR) over the past 35 years."

3Yrs, that's pretty funny. Corporate profits doesn't necessarily mean that the sector is healthy in the way most Merkins would think of it. How about employment? Average real wage? How about looking at the last 5 or 10 years, not 35 (conveniently starting in the early 70s when the economy was in the midst of the inflationary spiral)? Take a road trip to Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, etc.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-30-2006, 09:23 AM   #78
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
How are you measuring that?
exports have been growing for decades
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-30-2006, 09:34 AM   #79
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

Quote:
"Another interesting factoid from the BEA data is that corporate profits from manufacturing have increased 867% (6% CAGR) over the past 35 years."
Yet another misleading statistic...

Inflation alone as measured by the CPI accounts for over 500 percent of that 867 number.

Normal people would put it something like... Inflation adjusted profits for manufacturing are up around 60 percent since 1970.

That is not as great a headline for the NY times though.

Or are we to conclude...

Those jerk companies are rolling in the dough so we need to take all that money from them. Where's my congressman ! We need justice !

__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure
Old 08-30-2006, 09:48 AM   #80
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Re: One Measure of US Economic Failure

With reply #1, this thread topic changed from the USA's account balance to discussions about GDP, etc.

If this thread had been about individuals instead of countries, it would have stayed on the topic of net worth rather than income. If someone said that his net worth was -40K, we wouldn't have said that his income is more important.

Why isn't a country's account balance important?
__________________

__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An economic icon passes Eagle43 Other topics 5 11-17-2006 09:24 AM
GAO chief warns economic disaster frayne Other topics 1 10-28-2006 07:01 PM
US Economic Failure? semtex FIRE and Money 2 08-29-2006 11:02 AM
What is a failure ? Chris24 Other topics 15 04-12-2006 08:43 PM
Economic Outlook for 2004 DFW_M5 FIRE and Money 22 12-17-2003 04:32 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:12 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.