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Opinion: Financial Independence has nothing to do with being a millionare
Old 05-20-2019, 09:59 AM   #1
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Opinion: Financial Independence has nothing to do with being a millionare

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fi...ire-2019-05-20

I find this quote from the article to be really offensive....

For example, people say you should spend your money on experiences, not things. There is some spiritual component to this that I don’t get. I like spending money on experiences (particularly travel), but I like spending money on things more. Clothes, in particular.

You feel (and act) differently when you are wearing an expensive suit and an expensive pair of shoes. People who make $150,000 a year and still get all their clothes at Target do this not out of frugality, but low self-esteem. It is good and right to spend money on yourself now and then.


I added the bold.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:05 AM   #2
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That quote shows a narrow-minded view, IMO. That's like saying Warren Buffett has low self-esteem because he eats breakfast at McDonald's instead of some swanky buffet every day.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:07 AM   #3
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You feel (and act) differently when you are wearing an expensive suit and an expensive pair of shoes. People who make $150,000 a year and still get all their clothes at Target do this not out of frugality, but low self-esteem. It is good and right to spend money on yourself now and then.
Nothing wrong with Target. If he'd have gone after Kohl's, I'd have hunted him down. Nothing wrong with my self-esteem. Our IRA's reflect how much self-esteem we have, and I don't need to dress accordingly to prove anything to anyone.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:16 AM   #4
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I always thought the exact opposite. There must be a self esteem issue with someone who has to have their clothes speak to their status.

But anyway, if someone gets pleasure from buying expensive clothes versus travel its not my place to think they're wrong.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:22 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fi...ire-2019-05-20

I find this quote from the article to be really offensive....
I don't find it offensive, just ignorant.

Let me check if this is someone qualified to judge peoples' self-esteem without ever actually meeting them...

... nope.

Apparently he writes a "market newsletter for professional investors" and tries to convince people to give him $795/year for it. Okay.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:23 AM   #6
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I always thought the exact opposite. There must be a self esteem issue with someone who has to have their clothes speak to their status.
Yep. The author of that quote sure seems to be projecting
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:24 AM   #7
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He also says: "...I’m a lucky guy. Cool job, great marriage, nice house, fun hobbies — I have it all...."

Every time I hear 'I have it all', I tend to think: 'next scene'...just don't come home early unannounced some day.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:24 AM   #8
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I personally have no interest in buying expensive clothes, and I find people who say they love buying clothes to fire off my "idiot bubble head" detector.

Perhaps this is due to seeing Imelda Marco's shoe collection, or literally knowing a number of women who have dozens of shoes, and live by the I need to buy a dress to wear to a party as people have seen the 30 dresses I currently own attitude.

I don't limit this stupid buying idea to women, or clothes, for example I consider it stupid when a barely making enough money fellow I know tells me of his 3-4 cars he owns, and has no skills to fix/repair.

To me, many of these people want to look FI, or more FI than they really are.

This double comma member buys clothes at Kohl's, and anywhere high quality jeans are $15 or less.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
[url] People who make $150,000 a year and still get all their clothes at Target do this not out of frugality, but low self-esteem.
that's just silly
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:25 AM   #10
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Market Watch will print anything. Not going to give this article a click.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:31 AM   #11
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My Red Neck Woman looks pretty good in clothes from Target and WalMart. She don't need no fancy tag.

Honestly, who cares what the media writers think these days? The quality of today's news media is so low, that Howdy Doody would make more sense.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:34 AM   #12
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I don't want to act or feel any differently than I feel and act in my daily attire of flip flops, Columbia fishing shirt and Reel Legends shorts - all purchased at Bealls for less than $100 all in. Those Columbia shirts are pricey, but my self esteem is worth it.


I guess I'm really into my clothes too!
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by GravitySucks View Post
I always thought the exact opposite. There must be a self esteem issue with someone who has to have their clothes speak to their status. ...
Yes, but it's incredibly common. IMO one of the triumphs of late 20th-century marketing was to convince people to wear clothes advertising the supplier and to pay extra for the privilege.

I once astonished a shoe salesman by saying that liked the shoes but would not buy them because they displayed too much advertising.
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Some wheat, lots of chaff in the article
Old 05-20-2019, 10:42 AM   #14
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Some wheat, lots of chaff in the article

I agree that the excerpt bolded by OP is BS, but fancy clothes aren't my priority. Of course, that should be no surprise since I am a middle-aged male engineer with all the fashion sense of a warthog. Also, I go very few places where expensive suits would be expected. Even at the opera, formal attire is a thing of the past.

Maybe I'd rather spend on Italian food than on Italian tailoring. It's nonsense to conclude such a choice signifies low self-esteem.

Also, it's ironic that the author spends a lot of effort trashing TMND but then gives a list of recommendations which could have been lifted from the book.

The author talks about things vs experiences. However, sometimes you can't separate experiences from the things that enable them. For example, it's a lot easier to go wakeboarding if you have a boat. And even the author probably wouldn't buy a nice boat if he didn't plan to hit the water.

Once again, I'm left to wonder how some of these websites recruit their contributors. I'm confident I could have written a more consistent and useful article, although it's possible that "consistent and useful" equates to "non-controversial" which in turn equates to "won't attract lots of argumentative clicks".
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:23 AM   #15
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Yes, but it's incredibly common. IMO one of the triumphs of late 20th-century marketing was to convince people to wear clothes advertising the supplier and to pay extra for the privilege.

.
I only wear clothing that includes advertising on it if I was given the stuff for free. And then I only wear it while I am gardening, painting or changing the oil in my car.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:25 AM   #16
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But anyway, if someone gets pleasure from buying expensive clothes versus travel its not my place to think they're wrong.
I agree, I also do not think that is wrong, but I find it offensive if that same someone tells me that I have low self esteem because I do not buy expensive clothes.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:29 AM   #17
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That quote shows a narrow-minded view, IMO. That's like saying Warren Buffett has low self-esteem because he eats breakfast at McDonald's instead of some swanky buffet every day.
There is no such thing, I added the bold....
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:42 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
You feel (and act) differently when you are wearing an expensive suit and an expensive pair of shoes. People who make $150,000 a year and still get all their clothes at Target do this not out of frugality, but low self-esteem. It is good and right to spend money on yourself now and then.

The writer makes me think of the first sentence of "The Shining" (the book, not the movie). I can't repeat it here, but it's out there, if you want to google it.


I'll actually agree that it can be good and right to spend money on yourself now and then. But, ONLY if you find some value in it. For instance, I usually try not to cheap out when it comes to boots and shoes, but that's usually because a cheaper boot or shoe will often fall apart more quickly, or, especially if it's a knock-off, it just doesn't have the proportioning of the shoe it's trying to emulate, and can look a bit awkward.


And, the same probably holds true with suits and other clothing. A more expensive item will often last longer than a cheap knockoff. But, sometimes a cheap knockoff might be all you need.


Also, as others have said, sometimes people DO act differently when they wear something over-priced. And again, I will refer to the first sentence in "The Shining"
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:50 AM   #19
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I don't find it offensive, just ignorant.

Let me check if this is someone qualified to judge peoples' self-esteem without ever actually meeting them...

... nope...

Ignorance is usually not offensive, but this one is.

About fancy clothes, a few years ago on the spur of the moment, after the rehearsal for my daughter wedding and with an urge from my wife we drove straight to a men's store to buy my own tuxedo. I had worn rented tux, and it did not fit well. This was a special occasion, and I felt like splurging.

Darn, I really felt good standing up at the wedding greeting guests and later making a toast in my own tux that fit well.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:23 PM   #20
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Read his own bio on a newsletter he edits :

https://www.dailydirtnap.com/who/

Translation : He was one of the brilliant people that helped crash the economy in 2008 and bury Lehman brothers.

IMO , the guy is a hack.

On the original issue, A man born wealthy and a man born poor, who becomes wealthy, often do think differently. Low self esteem ?, that is a real stretch.

At least when a woman enter a Target store, she is not ambushed by a " Perfume Assassin " , as is common at high end retail establishments
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