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09-25-2009, 06:46 AM
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#121
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyounge1956
Where do I get this info? I googled Washington + "pension guarantee" and got a bajillion hits. Is it usually the state insurance auditor or someone? And I take it the Feds in this case would mean the Pension Guarantee corp or whatever their name is?
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I Googled "Washington State annuity guarantee rate" and got this:
Life and annuity guarantee associations by state
It looks like you are covered up to $500K in the aggregate and per contract. Your mistake was to look for pension guarantees -- different animal.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
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09-25-2009, 09:28 AM
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#122
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
I Googled "Washington State annuity guarantee rate" and got this:
Life and annuity guarantee associations by state
It looks like you are covered up to $500K in the aggregate and per contract. Your mistake was to look for pension guarantees -- different animal.
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Hi donheff,
thanks for the link.
based on what Bikerdude wrote, there may be a WA state guarantee on the City pension as well as on insurance company annuities:
Quote:
You should check, but I would assume your state guarantee's the city pension and the insurance annuity is probably covered up to 100K. If the state fails to cover the city pension the Fed's would step in. However, if you have a large pension you probably will not be fully covered.
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My thought was, suppose the state pension guarantee (if any) wouldn't replace the full amount of the ordinary pension benefit. In that case maybe it would be smart to choose one of the reduced benefit/lump sum combos. That might bring the pension payment down into the range where it would be fully guaranteed, and the annuity would be under $500K so that would be guaranteed too. I still need to follow up on Stevewc's suggestion and find out whether my City pension is actually an annuity purchased on my behalf by the pension system. I don't think it is—to the best of my knowledge the pensions are actually paid by the pension fund, not by a private insurer, but it can't hurt to double check.
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09-25-2009, 10:08 AM
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#123
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyounge1956
Hi donheff,
thanks for the link.
based on what Bikerdude wrote, there may be a WA state guarantee on the City pension as well as on insurance company annuities:
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I was focusing on the commercial annuity option. The city pension should be covered by the Federal program administered by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation - you can confirm with your HR people. I don't know the details on PBGC's guarantees but it should be relatively straight forward to check. Was this already discussed earlier in the thread? My gut tells me a PBGC covered pension is a safer bet.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
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09-26-2009, 01:25 PM
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#124
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosco
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, Michelle. I am Canadian, and used to being treated more politely by Canadian merchants. This is partially why I was so shocked at rude behavior by this man.
Having spent a lot of time in both countries, I will say that this is an atypical experience, in either country. I have never noticed a lower quality of customer service in Canada, with the possible exception of government agencies.
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Admittedly, it was a stretch. I hope the sting of your experience is wearing off though. His book is really quite a good read.
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09-27-2009, 08:09 AM
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#125
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 51
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I would love to see a good analysis of how to accurately ascertain the long-term risks of annuities / pensions. Otar spends little time on this unfortunately, Because one of the biggest issues in my opinion is the consumer being able to understand the true risk of the institution bearing the long-term risk.
People who had been counting on their defined pension plans with companies going bankrupt are finding that they never thought about this systematic risk.
Even now its very hard to clearly ascertain this risk if you find a good price on an annuity without the sales fees, etc. Does anyone believe the ratings institutions after they measured a lot of junk paper at AAA?
And finally, those with state government pensions are likely to be exposed to more risk of unilateral reductions than federal / military pensions as the state fiscal crisis worsens in the next 20 years and the states figure out a way to declare some type of bankruptcy.
Now many people don't have a choice -- they have to keep their pensions. But others have the potential to take the lump sum and at least transfer risk from a single company to 1 or many financial institutions if they could make a good decision
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Gryffindor
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09-30-2009, 02:16 PM
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#126
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 31
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Freebird or LOL or Cuppajoe, if you have a copy of Otar's book in pdf format, could you email it to me? Thanks.
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09-30-2009, 02:43 PM
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#127
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredtuna1
Freebird or LOL or Cuppajoe, if you have a copy of Otar's book in pdf format, could you email it to me? Thanks.
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Hey, if you've got any Beatles tunes, could you rip 'em to MP3 and email them to me?
Hmm, I wonder why authors find it hard to make money selling books direct to customers, even when the price is right.
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09-30-2009, 03:29 PM
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#128
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,082
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No doubt Samclem. The dishonesty of some people still surprises me. Don't know why it should as I continue to see it, but there it is
__________________
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
(Ancient Indian Proverb)"
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09-30-2009, 04:18 PM
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#129
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
Hey, if you've got any Beatles tunes, could you rip 'em to MP3 and email them to me?
Hmm, I wonder why authors find it hard to make money selling books direct to customers, even when the price is right.
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Gee, I bet Otar never saw that coming when he was handing out his free copies... of articles that he'd already been paid for, repackaged and self-published...
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
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12-22-2010, 03:27 PM
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#130
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
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Otar posts on bogleheads that his PDF version of "Unveiling the Retirement Myth" is once again free for download. You have to click through at otar retirement calculator until near the final order page to read that it is free.
This is a great book for folks about to enter or already in the Decumulation phase as this lengthy thread attests to.
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12-22-2010, 04:55 PM
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#131
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 295
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Well, I guess IAD..If you have enough and a 3% from it will get the job done and want to leave some behind, like we decided?
We just dumped our $ into Balanced Funds like VWINX, BERIX and a few Bonds and the heck with it..
First time we reduced our bonds and added extra $ to them was after 08' , going into 09' to play a Recovery,but now we took that $ back out and everything is back on course..
We Lived on A Commission Income our whole lives, running our own business, so we don't need to have an annuity or anything else to give us a Reg. Income,like Salary people need to have.. Just keep a couple of Yrs of $ for bills in ST Bonds and things have worked out better than we hoped...
Looks like going to leave Alot more $ behind than we planned..
and if they are right, that the last 10 yrs was going to be the worse and the next 10-20 will be alot better..? Better yet for our Kids..and Grandkids..
:-)
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12-22-2010, 07:54 PM
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#132
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
PDF version of "Unveiling the Retirement Myth" is once again free for download
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Thank you so much! One more reason for me to get a Kindle.
__________________
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know.
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12-22-2010, 08:48 PM
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#133
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 577
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Otar posts on bogleheads that his PDF version of "Unveiling the Retirement Myth" is once again free for download. You have to click through at otar retirement calculator until near the final order page to read that it is free.
Thanks LOL I just downloaded as that was the price I was looking for.
__________________
I highjacked a rainbow and crashed into a pot of gold - Bon Jovi
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12-22-2010, 10:57 PM
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#134
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 7,882
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"No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without the written permission of the publisher except in critical articles & reviews."
The way this is worded, it would seem perfectly OK to publish the whole publication. The prohibition is against publishing any part of the publication, not against the whole thing.
(Yes, of course I know what they meant, but that is not what they said. Knowing the difference between those two is a useful skill that I learned from my divorce attorney.)
2Cor521
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
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12-23-2010, 08:50 AM
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#135
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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LOL, thanks for reminding us of this book. Last year, I was about to pay to download it, when the trouble that Bosco had and the rude response of the author turned me off. Then, I forgot all about it.
This turned out to be a very good book. The gist of it that many would want to hear is that if your WR is low, around 3%, then it should be OK. Around 4%, it is iffy. And if it is higher, one would be safer with buying annuity. And as someone else has pointed out earlier and as we have already known, luck has a lot to do with it, meaning if you happen to retire into a string of bad years, there are going to be many sleepless nights...
Some people only read the later chapters, from chapter 41 till the end. You would miss his discussions on the effects of the frequency of portfolio rebalancing, the inclusion of foreign equities into the portfolio, and gasp, how one can do a bit of "dirty market timing" by looking at P/E, etc...
All in all, an excellent book.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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12-23-2010, 03:05 PM
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#136
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
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Thanks for the info
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12-23-2010, 04:10 PM
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#137
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,393
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Agree it's an excellent book. Basically he interprets the data one can find in Firecalc and draws some excellent conclusions. Certainly worth the price.
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12-23-2010, 04:34 PM
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#139
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 939
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__________________
I used to be “Thinker25” here. Retired at 62, now 73 (in 2021), no regrets & single again. I love it. I’m in RI.
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12-23-2010, 09:07 PM
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#140
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
Otar posts on bogleheads that his PDF version of "Unveiling the Retirement Myth" is once again free for download. You have to click through at otar retirement calculator until near the final order page to read that it is free.
This is a great book for folks about to enter or already in the Decumulation phase as this lengthy thread attests to.
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Thanks for the tip, LOL. Got it.
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