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Old 01-27-2013, 01:22 AM   #21
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Please put this thread in FAQs

This is an interesting thread on a subject I don't recall seeing here before. I never thought about it but I can imagine having such anxiety when the time comes. OK, it is not a Frequently Asked Question, but it will occur to many sooner or later.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:22 AM   #22
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This is an interesting thread on a subject I don't recall seeing here before. I never thought about it but I can imagine having such anxiety when the time comes. OK, it is not a Frequently Asked Question, but it will occur to many sooner or later.
+1

I just made my own list of "back-up plans" from the advice on this thread.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:26 AM   #23
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I am more worried about running out of time.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:28 AM   #24
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I am more worried about running out of time.
+1

I can always cut back on spending, but how do you stave off the grim reaper?
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #25
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I can always cut back on spending, but how do you stave off the grim reaper?
Right Foot Green has seemed to work in the past...

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Old 01-27-2013, 12:14 PM   #26
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I am more worried about running out of time.
Me, too. The older I get, the more I wish I was immortal somehow.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:39 PM   #27
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You can't plan for every catastrophe so there is no 100% guarantee that you'll have enough money. However, keep in mind that this is true even if you were still working, right?

For me, I have some buffer in my nest egg, and I also have some fat in my budget I can cut out if needed. If I need to dig deeper, I can downsize my house and make other tougher budget cuts. If it really gets awful, I'll find a way to deal with it, but I can't lose sleep over something that almost certainly will not happen.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:51 PM   #28
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I suffer from the same malady as the OP with a projected WR at 2.5% or less, though I'm only about 1 years into retirement, with 40 years to go. It would be nice to splurge now while we're better able to enjoy it, but with so many decades to go we just can't do it. However, fortunately we don't feel at all deprived. If we spent more it would mostly be just increasing the frequency of the things we already do/spend money on. We'll loosen up as the years pass if real returns allow. Still hoping to die broke, though we know the odds are against it...
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:01 PM   #29
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DH has concerns similar to those of OP. he hates to "deplete" all the money we worked so hard to save for 30 years.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:09 PM   #30
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Still hoping to die broke, though we know the odds are against it...
I know that is often said, by many others here, and it is said lightly at times. So, the following is not meant as any sort of criticism at all. Still, I have to say it.

We don't like to think of death and our last year on earth, but I am imagining how it might be if nearly broke. Most likely I would be physically and mentally deteriorating at that point, perhaps bedridden, and quite helpless and vulnerable, perhaps all alone in the world and being cared for by a minimum wage worker who could care less about me.

Imagine knowing that one was nearly broke under such circumstances. I would be terribly distressed, worrying about who would feed me if I was broke. Perhaps they would even throw me out by a dumpster if I could not pay for my room and care, or at least I would worry about that in my helpless state. Even if close to death, one still does not know exactly when the Grim Reaper will come.

Honestly, I do not hope to die broke. It sounds like a miserable way to go.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:10 PM   #31
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DH has concerns similar to those of OP. he hates to "deplete" all the money we worked so hard to save for 30 years.
Misfire....To continue

Despite all my spreadsheets and projections for 5 years out and beyond, he does not always feel all that stable.

I finally asked HIM to set up a spreadsheet that HE updates each month. It has helped a bit for him to see that despite what he sees as depletion, balances increase. We just move the money around.

He will be even happier when he sees what our new Wellesley has been doing.

Unless W2R writes the WH** word again.

The transition has taken us about 4 years, but with 4 years of numbers behind us, I think we are finally settling in.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:11 PM   #32
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If you think you are covered, you likely will be fine. You can't control catastrophe, so barring catastrophe ( in which case we are all in the same boat), LBYM and stay flexible with your budget/spending.
I think this is the key. If the only thing that would derail your plans is the kind of catastrophe that FIREcalc hasn't already seen (that's including 1929), then everything else about society would be in a pretty bad way anyway. It's not like you'd suddenly be broke and your neighbours would all be buying new cars with your money - in fact, the resulting massive deflation would be a huge boost to retirees with a decent chunk of cash, and disastrous for the working stiffs with debts.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:14 PM   #33
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I know that is often said, by many others here, and it is said lightly at times. So, the following is not meant as any sort of criticism at all. Still, I have to say it.

We don't like to think of death and our last year on earth, but I am imagining how it might be if nearly broke. Most likely I would be physically and mentally deteriorating at that point, perhaps bedridden, and quite helpless and vulnerable, perhaps all alone in the world and being cared for by a minimum wage worker who could care less about me.

Imagine knowing that one was nearly broke under such circumstances. I would be terribly distressed, worrying about who would feed me if I was broke. Perhaps they would even throw me out by a dumpster if I could not pay for my room and care, or at least I would worry about that in my helpless state. Even if close to death, one still does not know exactly when the Grim Reaper will come.

Honestly, I do not hope to die broke. It sounds like a miserable way to go.
Sorry to elicit such concerns for you or anyone else. If I do achieve the 'die broke' objective it won't be as you fear, it would be with a SPIA covering at least our basic expenses if necessary, and we'll also want to leave a bequest for charity/family. But there may be no portfolio beyond that. There's no real chance of 'living under a bridge eating crunchy* cat food' at the end.

And as I said, the odds of actually making it work out are remote at best.

Again, sorry. Never meant to make light of the goal at all...

*Sarah in SC's recommendation.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:17 PM   #34
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I think there are distinct differences in how one defines "dying broke". My view of the term is by the time DW and I expire we will have spent virtually all our savings and have almost nothing left for our heirs once the bills are paid from our estate.

W2R's view of "dying broke" is far more frightening: running out of money while it is still needed to buy the necessities of life - even if that is to simply pay someone to feed me and change my diaper.

I like my view better.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:17 PM   #35
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Sorry to elicit such concerns for you or anyone else. If I do achieve the 'die broke' objective it won't be as you fear, it would be with a SPIA covering at least our basic expenses if necessary, and we'll also want to leave a bequest for charity/family. But there may be no portfolio beyond that. There's no real chance of 'living under a bridge eating crunchy* cat food' at the end.

And as I said, the odds of actually making it work out are remote at best.

Again, sorry...

*Sarah in SC's recommendation.
Ah! Much better than my imagined scenario. Thanks.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:19 PM   #36
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I think there are distinct differences in how one defines "dying broke". My view of the term is by the time DW and I expire we will have spent virtually all our savings and have almost nothing left for our heirs once the bills are paid from our estate.

W2R's view of "dying broke" is far more frightening: running out of money while it is still needed to buy the necessities of life - even if that is to simply pay someone to feed me and change my diaper.

I like my view better.
I like Midpack's view even better than yours, since we never seem to know the exact timing of our demise. An SPIA at that age could be a comfort.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:30 PM   #37
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Sorry to elicit such concerns for you or anyone else. If I do achieve the 'die broke' objective it won't be as you fear, it would be with a SPIA covering at least our basic expenses if necessary, and we'll also want to leave a bequest for charity/family.
Seems like an SPIA (actually multiple SPIA's sized to fit state insurance I guess) would be a great solution for someone afraid they'll run out of money. At the very least it's a bit of risk diversification. With a decent portfolio you can hold SPIA's as a later in retirement Plan B purchase, or buy one every few years to minimize inflation and interest rate change problems.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:34 PM   #38
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With a decent portfolio you can hold SPIA's as a later in retirement Plan B purchase.
That's exactly our plan, hopefully out at age 75 or more if then (annuitization hurdle, blah, blah, blah...). If all goes well, we'll never buy one, but as a means to die broke without running out, a SPIA is hard to beat as far as I can tell.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:35 PM   #39
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I feel better knowing that others have an irrational fear of running out of money. Before retiring I bought all the big ticket items I wanted--tv, a new car and a kitchen remodel. I'm glad I did that then because I didn't stress about the costs. Now, I have the time and incentive to be very frugal and I would have worried more about each decision in the kitchen remodel.

When I was working, I was afraid of running out of time. I think its tragic for people who die without ever experiencing the joy of retirement. Once I had been retired for a year, I breathed a sigh of relief that if I died tomorrow, I didn't "miss out". I was grateful that at least I have one year or freedom---not everyone gets that.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:31 PM   #40
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I feel OP's pain. After working and saving (and watching net worth grow) for 38 years, the last thing I want to experience is a reduction in net worth. For me, I don't know if its a fear of running out of money or simply a numbers thing where I don't want to see NW go down. Hopefully this is a common trait among among early retirees that eventually wears off.
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