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Old 12-29-2010, 12:19 AM   #61
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Clearly equities, real estate and possibly commodities will help but one of the most effective (tho not psychologically the best for me) is to have debt. So maybe the boomers with a lot of debt have unknowingly found a good anti inflation strategy.
That all works well at Hale Nords, especially the mortgage debt...
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:38 AM   #62
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I don't think this is a hijack but a development of the thread, if the way to neutralize the savers is inflation then what is the best way for savers to address inflation? Clearly equities, real estate and possibly commodities will help but one of the most effective (tho not psychologically the best for me) is to have debt. So maybe the boomers with a lot of debt have unknowingly found a good anti inflation strategy.
+1

Inflation is one of my bigger concerns about early retirement and I will be holding mostly equities and real estate with a small allocation to commodities as one (very imperfect) attempt to provide a degree of protection and I will also keep some of the mortgages on my properties in place for the same reason.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:23 AM   #63
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Flying under the radar here as well, although sometimes I wish I could take the Wild Weasel approach with the spendthrift whiners of my own generation.
The best defense is a good offense. ARM means something different in that context.

I never mentioned to my bosses that I am planning to retire early since Mega only offers 401(k)s (unless they are of the same mindset). DW at least works for a Mega that still offers pensions.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:35 AM   #64
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Same here - flying under the radar. Not always easy to do so.

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Flying under the radar here as well, although sometimes I wish I could take the Wild Weasel approach with the spendthrift whiners of my own generation.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:56 AM   #65
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I tell the truth, laid off twice due to megacorp mergers, 50+ getting kicked to the curb again.

what surprises me is how much hostility exists out there - against both pensioners and savers, I guess it's true what they say "no good deed goes unpunished".

we're going to move to either Tuscon or St George (55+) and just go about our business, surrounded by folks just like us - retired.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:26 AM   #66
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The only retired people I know are my brother, and an 82 year old friend. I met some fifty-ish woman dancing who is retired city worker, but I don't really know her. Almost forgot, one male friend recently retired from county government.

I have not noticed any bad feeling directed toward me for years, although I live where many adults including adult men are out and about during the day, so it would be hard to know if one is actively working or a pensioner.

I think people may resent public pensions, as they see them as unduly generous and only available to a small subset of workers. And of course, it may occur to them that a good hunk of their taxes go to pay these pensions.

I have never heard any negative comments about savers or people with pensions from private business. People who are perceived to be tight-fisted with money in their personal lives, or misers, have never been liked by other types as far as I know.

In general, people tend to respect work and distrust those whose lives are devoted to leisure. They don't get much into, "well she must have worked hard to save enough to now devote herself to leisure." It's more what have you done lately thinking.

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Old 12-29-2010, 10:03 AM   #67
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Speaking of Boomers....

Just remember, the youngest "boomer" (born in 1964) is just 46, today.

I would think that a lot of pre-50 folks think that they are not responsible for the "boomer's mistakes", even being part of the era. However, I doubt that few of them were at Woodstock (maybe they were, in a way ) or realize that they are lumped in with us "losers".

All I know is as an early boomer (turn 63 on Monday ), I didn't get to participate in the "excesses" of the times quoted. Just a "po white boy" that got his draft notice (pardon, my free SEA "vacation" notification) the same month he turned 18. That was the days before the lottery. If you turned 18, you "won" (unless you ran to Canada, or you could afford college).

Having parents that put their own needs first (no college for me - working at the family business since I turned 14, for no pay, and had only a few pennies in my pocket when I got on the bus to basic training) I had to make my own way.

Oh well. I'm not bitter (really). Just don't lump me with those that are thought of as the "typical boomer" (I'm not typical, at all )...
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:20 AM   #68
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I think people may resent public pensions, as they see them as unduly generous and only available to a small subset of workers. And of course, it may occur to them that a good hunk of their taxes go to pay these pensions.
Ha, this is only going to get worse, especially if public pensions and SS aren't affected equally by the budget-balancing axe. People in the private sector paid into SS for years with the promise of "x" benefit when they retired at "y" age- when they see their promised benefits cut and their public sector counterparts getting COLA'd raises every year the social and political backlash is going to be ugly.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:58 PM   #69
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I am not worried about jealousy from anyone. How could they be envious of a guy who is still doing maintenance on his cars? I have a bit of money, but I am not filthy rich. What is there for them to be envious about? I do not have to pretend; my frugality works well enough.

What I don't like is if they are going to say that because I have saved that amount of money, I do not need the SS as much as other spendthrifts, and I need to give that up. That would put me in a dilemma. Should I join the spendthrifts and spend all my savings now, so that I will be poor like them and will be taken care of?
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:57 PM   #70
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Just don't lump me with those that are thought of as the "typical boomer" (I'm not typical, at all )...
Nope, rescueme, you're unique- just like everyone else.
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:32 PM   #71
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Nope, rescueme, you're unique- just like everyone else.
The broke the mold after they made you Westie
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:37 PM   #72
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The broke the mold after they made you Westie
It's probably best....
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:46 PM   #73
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Something from one of those "understanding generational differences" classes at work - "Baby Boomers don't like to be called Baby Boomers and they don't like to be lumped together. They like to think they are unique."

So, you see, the younger folks have already Catch-22'd your arguments You cannot win! All that is left for you is to refer to everyone under 40 as "slackers who still live with their parents"!

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SJust don't lump me with those that are thought of as the "typical boomer" (I'm not typical, at all )...
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:49 PM   #74
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One thing they all have in common is that they are all unique.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:06 PM   #75
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I'm a Gen-X member, and when I read articles about retirement, I don't think of it as "oh look at the Baby Boomers and their plight". Instead, I substitute Baby Boomer for Gen-X because I know the very things can happen to members of my generation and Gen-Y as well.

I've seen people in my peer group buy more house and car than they can afford, live on credit cards, take out interest only loans, draw out lines of equity on their homes etc.... the same mentality that may have landed members of Baby Boomers who are in trouble will come back to bite Gen-X and Gen-Y as well.

One of our family friends made an insightful observation - you look at a sitcom and how the "average" family lives - the home they seem to have, cars, what they get to do etc. and it sends a message disparate from reality. More realistic were sitcoms like Married with Children or the Roseanne show. People seem to dress really well these days on TV no matter what they do!

There was another forum that asked whether our financial habits are nature versus nurture, and I think it's a bit of both. Rather than blame parents (i.e. BB for Gen-X's spending habits) it's more about our cultural norms today and the messages we receive without ever realizing.

I don't think my parents landed in their financial dire straits by being spendthrifts... but they did so by being very stupid "investors" (i.e. listen to "hot tips", getting ripped off by ponzi schemes) with their hard earned money. I know they will probably die in debt. It makes me sad to think there are many more like my parents.

But it does make me angry to know that there are people who overleveraged themselves, used "other people's money" as if they have nothing to lose, and then whine about having to work until their 70... no matter what generation they come from!
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:47 PM   #76
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Nicely said, jstriding.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:59 PM   #77
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Nicely said, jstriding.
+1 So true.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:15 PM   #78
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We are the sum of our choices. If we choose to make short-sighted choices, then we have short-sighted outcomes. Those of us who lived below our means and saved to enjoy an early and happier retirement did so not with great foresight; but, with great decisiveness. It's a version of the economics course you took in college - do you spend your money on guns or butter.... or these days cars or IRAs?

Do any of you have stats on how much debt the retirement eligible group is carrying by age group? I'd like to see numbers on the relationship between savings and debt. I suspect people with high savings have little or no debt.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:44 PM   #79
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REWahoo wrote "TMI. The old standby is to tell anyone who asks that you retied for medical reasons. Just don't mention it was because you were sick of working... "

I love that statement---just too funny.

However, I do think that is some resentment/backlash toward early retirees---even on this board I notice some resentment at times toward public employees (I was a public employee). However, full disclosure requires me to admit that I stopped lurking for a while because of a number of can I retire on X amount with lots of folks pilling on to say no way X amount is too little. Well, X amount was more that I made while working and saving a fair amount of my paycheck. So yeah, the envy can go both ways.

Really flying under the radar and living well is the best strategy. Life is good.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:39 PM   #80
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However, I do think that is some resentment/backlash toward early retirees---even on this board I notice some resentment at times toward public employees (I was a public employee). However, full disclosure requires me to admit that I stopped lurking for a while because of a number of can I retire on X amount with lots of folks pilling on to say no way X amount is too little. Well, X amount was more that I made while working and saving a fair amount of my paycheck. So yeah, the envy can go both ways.

Really flying under the radar and living well is the best strategy. Life is good.
FIYes, I think you might be misinterpreting some of your observations.

As far as I can tell, 98% of the board couldn't care less how each of us arrived at this little island of common sense amid the flotsam of "living life for the moment" attitudes (as long as you did it legally! ). I think what you might be misinterpreting is that many on this board aren't fully supportive of the fiscally cavalier attitude with which many government organizations are awarding pensions that will end up costing huge sums of money to cover - and as the public sector keeps adding jobs, the total intake they need (in the form of real estate/income/sales/etc. taxes) will only skyrocket.

Also, when it comes to many questions of "will I be able to retire on $X?", many people who first think of early retirement may not have fully factored in the impact of health care, tuition for children, future taxes, investment returns that average 5% or less, foreign exchange rates if they move to another country...the list can be quite lengthy!

It's because of this unawareness that some first-time posters are advised to be careful of assuming a portfolio of $X will make it through for a variety of reasons. However, I don't think you'll find many disagreements with the conventional wisdom that a portfolio of 25x or 30x your first year withdrawal is a decent assumption and starting point for a diversified portfolio. There is a lot of tweaking/opinion thrashing about how much more for specific situations, but people on this forum aren't going to say "What? Your portfolio is just 17x expenses and you want to be retired for 40 years? No problem! Pop a beer and start celebrating your retirement". They're going to tend to be slightly more conservative than not (part of the reason we're all able to enjoy/plan for ER to begin with!).

If someone wants to roll the dice and try a portfolio of just 20x (or some other multiple) of expenses for their 30/40/50 year retirement, nothing's stopping them...but most people on this forum have a conscience that won't let them recommend it without making sure someone knows and understands the additional risks with their strategy above and beyond the standard risks of retiring early.
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