Peer backlash against us?

[donheff]

Someone posted this article about retirement woes facing boomers on a cycling forum a few of us frequent. There is nothing new in the article - it goes over the oft told tale of lost pensions, evaporated 401ks and bleak years ahead. Unlike here though, the comments leaned pessimistic. A few people mentioned that they had things under control but many more were looking at years of unwanted work and more than a few expressed resentment at civil servants and other "undeserving" pensioners. Savers may soon fall under the same shadow -- after all, you couldn't have saved that much unless you were over-payed to begin with. Do we need to keep our heads down and circle the wagons in our ER outpost to avoid crowds with pitch forks?

 

[brewer12345]

Nope. Just fly under the radar as much as possible...

 

[teejayevans]

Yea, I wouldn't be bragging about retiring early to someone who just came to the realization that their retirement is their responsibility. Also there are those in the govt who may want to spread (your) the wealth.
TJ

 

[REWahoo]

I may add some water to the moat...

 

[rescueme]

Do we need to keep our heads down and circle the wagons in our ER outpost to avoid crowds with pitch forks?

No. That's why we have adm's that can control the situation.

There will always be those that feel they deserve to be served dessert without eating their veggies. It's no different than some of us being jealous of others (for me, Hef - with his new "wife" ). There will always be those that have more...

Just my POV.

 

[LOL!]

I think we just need to use the sympathy angle. Yep, it's really hard. Yep, the price of gas is too damn high. Yep, the last oil change on the Mercedes AMG550 was outrageous. Yep, short-term parking at the airport on the way to Vail was outrageous.

 

[braumeister]

Not to mention the looks you get at the country club when you show up in last year's Maybach, and it's not even the chauffeur-driven model.

 

[donheff]

It's no different than some of us being jealous of others (for me, Hef - with his new "wife" ). There will always be those that have more...

Hef looked pretty pathetic. I'm not sure even Viagra can help him. But, with a decent pre-nup, his 24 YO fiance can certainly look forward to a nice ER after a few years of dues paying

 

[RonBoyd]

David Brooks (New York Times), annually gives out what he calls the "Sidney Awards" for the best magazine essays.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/opinion/24brooks.html?ref=davidbrooks

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/opinion/28brooks.html?ref=davidbrooks

Anyway, one of his choices was this ([-]very [/-]extremely long) article that may (remotely?) be related to this issue:

The Inequality That Matters

Does growing wealth and income inequality in the United States presage the downfall of the American republic? Will we evolve into a new Gilded Age plutocracy, irrevocably split between the competing interests of rich and poor? Or is growing inequality a mere bump in the road, a statistical blip along the path to greater wealth for virtually every American? Or is income inequality partially desirable, reflecting the greater productivity of society’s stars?

The funny thing is this: For years, many cultural critics in and of the United States have been telling us that Americans should behave more like threshold earners. We should be less harried, more interested in nurturing friendships, and more interested in the non-commercial sphere of life. That may well be good advice. Many studies suggest that above a certain level more money brings only marginal increments of happiness. What isn’t so widely advertised is that those same critics have basically been telling us, without realizing it, that we should be acting in such a manner as to increase measured income inequality. Not only is high inequality an inevitable concomitant of human diversity, but growing income inequality may be, too, if lots of us take the kind of advice that will make us happier.

Is the overall picture a shame? Yes. Is it distorting resource distribution and productivity in the meantime? Yes. Will it again bring our economy to its knees? Probably. Maybe that’s simply the price of modern society. Income inequality will likely continue to rise and we will search in vain for the appropriate political remedies for our underlying problems.

 

[NW-Bound]

I am afraid we will have to "share", in one way or another.

I read the same article published here: Baby boomers facing retirements in jeopardy - Business - Your retirement - msnbc.com.

It has a picture of the typical poor retiree described as following.

Michael Vanatta, 61, of Vero Beach, Fla., is paying the price for being a boomer who enjoyed life without saving for the future. He put a daughter through college, but he also spent plenty of money on indulgences like dining out and the latest electronic gadgets.

Vanatta was laid off last January from his $100,000-a-year job as a sales executive for a turf company. And with savings of just $5,000, he's on a budget for the first time. In April, he will start taking Social Security at age 62.

​

Yes, we will need to "share" with unfortunate people as the above. Else, there will be pitch forks.

 

[rescueme]

Yes, we will need to "share" with unfortunate people as the above.

He was not "unfortunate" - he was just plain stupid IMHO. He had the assets (OK, shared with his previous wife ), but it did say he bought his "toys" over the years.

As to the second example in the article? The woman is living in la-la land, IMHO. She expects to work till age 70, and then expects to travel, yet cannot afford to today?

Hey, I know that I/DW are truly fortunate in our current financial situation, but it was built over many years by significant sacrifices along the way. I have no desire to share with those that acted like "grasshoppers" in their earlier life...

 

[NW-Bound]

He was not "unfortunate" - he was just plain stupid IMHO.

Eh, do not be so harsh! Show some compassion, or else.


I was just being sarcastic.

 

[Purron]

I've seen my fair share of negativity about those of us who have planned for and reached financial independence both here and in my personal life. I do think it's wise to be sensitive to those who are not so well situated be it though bad luck or poor planning.

Envy can be a very nasty thing. If you can't have what someone else has, a common reaction is to put it down and convince yourself it's not worth having anyway.

DH and I have discussed this issue, particularly since he will be joining me in retirement early next year. We plan to focus on our simple lifestyle and the fact we may do occassional part time or contracting work.

 

[hakuna matata]

I was just discussing this article with my wife this morning. As of today we are at 4 years til retirement. Today is her Birthday and 4 years from now she will have the required years and age to get her pension (I can actually leave anytime).

But there is NO one we can discuss this with among our peers. So we don't, simple as that. We just fly under the radar and don't discuss finances or retirement among our friends. Not sure what we will do when we are retired and they are still working though but I guess we will just concoct some story at that point! I have 4 years to come up with a good story!

 

[rescueme]

I do think it's wise to be sensitive to those who are not so well situated be it though bad luck or poor planning.

True, but when you see articles about folks who were living the "good life", and you read about someone (as in the article) that was making over $100k/year yet has only $5k in retirement investments, you wander if he was responsible (or his former DW's lawyer was).

Those that have a hard life and don't have the chance to accumulate much for retirement is one thing. Often, their lifestyles do not need much to get by in retirement (or even pre-retirement, as my disabled son represents) and can get by with a minimum of savings, along with SS.

However, when I read articles such as this that portray somebody who is living beyond their means (IMHO) and then expects somebody else to pick up the tab, it gets my blood boiling ....

 

[haha]

I was just discussing this article with my wife this morning. As of today we are at 4 years til retirement. Today is her Birthday and 4 years from now she will have the required years and age to get her pension (I can actually leave anytime).

But there is NO one we can discuss this with among our peers. So we don't, simple as that. We just fly under the radar and don't discuss finances or retirement among our friends. Not sure what we will do when we are retired and they are still working though but I guess we will just concoct some story at that point! I have 4 years to come up with a good story!

If they know that one or both of you are governemnt workers, there will be no need to concoct a story. They will know your story well enough.

Ha

 

[hankster]

I sometimes feel like I live in two worlds regarding peer relationships. At work, I'm in a small group of people who are very much like me; savings-minded, LBYM with good incomes. We can talk about these things without worrying about envy and resentment.

Many of my relationships outside the workplace are with people who face a bleak future on the retirement front, be it through poor planning, some negative life events or a combination of these. I tend to avoid discussions with them about FIRE topics unless they are young enough to possibly be influenced toward preparation by my words.

As Brewer said "under the radar".

I'm still working on my post retirement response to "so what do you do?"
My favorite so far came from someone on this forum:

"I'm am investment portfolio manager"
(my nest egg)

 

[hakuna matata]

If they know that one or both of you are governemnt workers, there will be no need to concoct a story. They will know your story well enough.

Ha

True but it is only a 20 year pension. So it isn't a huge amount of money (something like 33% of her best salary) but we are so close that it would be foolish to RE now and lose out on that money for the next 40 years or so. So they will know it isn't enough to retire on. I work in private industry (architect) so everyone knows (thinks) I am poor!

 

[FinanceDude]

Just give a good cover story, like: "Credit cards are awesome! We are using ours to travel the world and no have to work forever!!! We'll send you postcards from everywhere"..............

 

[brewer12345]

Just give a good cover story, like: "Credit cards are awesome! We are using ours to travel the world and no have to work forever!!! We'll send you postcards from everywhere"..............

That is a GREAT one! Will have to remember it for future use.

There is more than one kind of envy, though. We plan to relocate close to DW's family because we like the area, it is inexpensive and it is close to family that we (mostly) get along with. But every time we talk to DW's older sister I struggle to restrain the green-eyed monster when she casually mentions that DW's parents are watching the kid for her yet again.

Don't wave the red flag in front of the bull, have a good cover story, and everyone will likely simply assume you are floating on a sea of debt like everyone else.

 

[haha]

That is a GREAT one! Will have to remember it for future use.

There is more than one kind of envy, though. We plan to relocate close to DW's family because we like the area, it is inexpensive and it is close to family that we (mostly) get along with. But every time we talk to DW's older sister I struggle to restrain the green-eyed monster when she casually mentions that DW's parents are watching the kid for her yet again.

Don't wave the red flag in front of the bull, have a good cover story, and everyone will likely simply assume you are floating on a sea of debt like everyone else.

I used to ask my wife, "How are all these people we know who work as grovery clerks driving new cars and going to Disneyland?"

Her answer-credit cards and parents.

Ha

 

[W2R]

Yes, I think the OP is correct about what people think of retirees with income from pensions, SS, and/or investments. Any of those income sources inspire resentment.

Since I can't change that, I can honestly say that I really don't care what everyone thinks as long as they and the government keep their hands off my money.

 

[ls99]

No intentions for any cover story. At 63 not may are upset at the leisure time I have. The ones that are, they can just stuff their jealousy.

From my perspective, arriving as a legal immigrant, started working right away at menial jobs, lack of English was a great hindrance. By the time language skills improved, Uncle Sam wanted his cut as a price of my green card.

Three years later, back in the labor market, trying to make a buck at various employers. Granted a lot of it was fun, but low pay. Having a masters in cheapskate by the age 15, continued saving, bought my first house at age 22 or 23 heck that was a while ago, which of course immediately made me house poor, etc. etc. etc..

Retired at 59.5. I earned it, owed it to myself, and am enjoying it to hilt.

The hacienda is well covered by Strum, Smith, Merlin and company. Besides it is a sleepy little town, with mostly like minded folks.

And to those who were and are busy living the high life, new cars, party hardy, expensive high maintenance trophy partners, fancy clothes in their youth and middle ages, by all means go ahead and keep up the good work.

I guess that does not show proper sympathy for the grasshoppers. Eh?

 

[easysurfer]

I think some folks look at an ER'er like someone from a different planet. How the heck could someone pull it off and ER?

If questioned, I answer by..."live below your means, max out your 401K, IRA contributions, start at a young age, the magic of compounding..." they they get bored and say, "you must have been paid a really really high salary or hit it big in the stock market"

 

[vicente solano]

Now that in Spain unemployment benefits will harder to get and legal retirement age will be established at 67, needing more than 35 years of effective working/paying SS and setting up longer working periods to establish the average pension (from 15 to 25 or more)....I´ll try to not let it be know than I am an ERedMore so, bearing in mind that there are 4,5 mill unemployed