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Old 10-06-2010, 06:02 PM   #21
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I would escalate to a supervisor and not waste time w/ the 1st level troops.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:06 PM   #22
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I would escalate to a supervisor and not waste time w/ the 1st level troops.
I was quietly browsing the shelves at Home Depot one day when a clerk called over to another, held up his phone, and said "I can't get anywhere with this guy. Do you want to pretend to be a supervisor and talk to him?"

I don't know which is worse-- that tactic or the response "I'm sorry, no supervisors are available but I can have one call you back in 48 hours or never..."
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:46 PM   #23
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I often get one of 2 non-verbal responses:
1) an "accidental" immediate cutoff
2) a semi-infinite hold followed by 1)

but surprisingly sometimes
3) a semi-infinite hold followed by a supervisor. Usually you can tell the supervisor because they have a much broader view of things,are more knowledgeable, can reason,etc. They also are more empowered and can do things the CSRs can't. They can also deal w/ the CSRs who do 1) and 2) so it helps to have their names.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:50 PM   #24
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...
In order for a card to be printed, someone at VISA had to have supplied my name, number, expiry and code to the crooks.
...
Just curious, how do you know this --- that it was someone at Visa?

You do realize that your card information is known to every merchant where you use the card, and to every processor (third party) that those merchants use, don't you? Of course the card info is also known to the issuing bank. The banks are probably the most secure. I have done IT time in merchants, and in card issuing banks, in transaction processing systems -- CC transactions, among others. I have had access to literally tens of thousands of sets of card information. Of course I never stole anything. I am honest, and even if I weren't, I know that the likelihood of getting caught is high and the consequences of such would deter the intelligent.

I have never looked, but there are probably instructions for card production posted somewhere on the net.

The best place for a crook to steal numbers is in a processor. There they can get stuff from multiple merchants destined for multiple card companies, and that makes the investigation much more difficult.

Edit to add: Sorry this happened to REW and everybody else -- been there, done that, and bought the shirt. But it happens. I still do paper statements for all financial transactions.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:36 PM   #25
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When I get an on-line statement from any of my financial accounts I do a print to pdf of the statement and retain those. You can download a free utility like cutepdf to enable you to print anything to a pdf file.
This is an excellent idea, and I'm ashamed I didn't think of it myself. I use FREE PDF Printer to print and save on disk all sorts of things, but I never even thought to save my credit card and bank statements that way. I'm getting too lax about leaving my personal information in other's control. Thanks Alan.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:04 PM   #26
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It's just routine for me to download the monthly statement from every place I have an account. I print it as a pdf and save them to folders on my desktop computer, with backups made to a cd every year.

I, too, have had numerous fraudulent charges on my PenFed Visa card. Probably 10 or 12 in the last 5 or 6 years.
The PenFed fraud squad catches them, calls me at home to check on them, then re-issues me a new card with a new number. It's a hassle, but not a huge one.

The most amazing one happened two years ago. Someone used my card number to buy a first-class airline ticket from Phoenix to Little Rock, then went back a few hours later and somehow (who knows?) managed to get the airline to refund the tickets in cash. Really hard to believe, but that's what the fraud squad person told me.

Incidentally, I also do the print to pdf routine on my brokerage statements as well. It's a great system, and I would never go back to paper statements, as that's just asking for one more potential problem. Mailbox thefts are more common than you would think.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:12 PM   #27
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It's just routine for me to download the monthly statement from every place I have an account. I print it as a pdf and save them to folders on my desktop computer, with backups made to a cd every year.
I'd suggest you save them in google mail instead of the computer or CD.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:45 AM   #28
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Even though we're opting for paper statements at PenFed, each card transaction is still available online for review prior to the statement closing date. So switching to paper statements will have no impact on our ability to watch for fraudulent charges.

Like you, I check activity online at least once a week and noticed the bogus charge a couple of days after it took place.
Makes sense now that I think of it. I keep reverting in my mind to business practices from my working days. Businesses don't pay off statements so they are rarely used for anything but reconciliation. Even auditors won't look at statements except to make sure sub-accounts are reconciled.

I forgot that most individuals do pay off statements. I keep an electronic copy of the statement on hard disk.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:21 PM   #29
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I'd suggest you save them in google mail instead of the computer or CD.
But then you're right back in the situation of counting on someone else's systems and processes. I know Google has great systems, but if at some time they decide you aren't who you say you are your stuff is gone. I have no problem with online storage, but I think you should have a local backup. If nothing else, you can still look things up even when your internet access is down.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:24 PM   #30
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PenFed responded:

Quote:
Thank you for contacting Pentagon Federal Credit Union.

I have requesting that the 2010 statements from the closed card be mailed to you
at no cost. Unfortunately, there is not any way to make them available online.

If you need further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely,

Xxx Xxxxxx
Pentagon Federal Credit Union
Success...at least it appears that way.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:44 PM   #31
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PenFed responded:..
Success...at least it appears that way.
Yes, but never should have even gotten to that level. Glad they finally did the right thing. Banks are not easy.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:22 PM   #32
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PenFed responded:

Success...at least it appears that way.
Well done. It shouldn't have been so difficult, but your persistence has paid off.
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:14 AM   #33
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But then you're right back in the situation of counting on someone else's systems and processes. I know Google has great systems, but if at some time they decide you aren't who you say you are your stuff is gone. I have no problem with online storage, but I think you should have a local backup. If nothing else, you can still look things up even when your internet access is down.
I save everything local and my system does a nightly backup to Mozy.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:39 AM   #34
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I have had about one fraud issue every two years no matter what credit card I am using and they are caught by the fraud departments and "handled" without issue -- I figure it as part of the price of doing business using a CC . I t has never negatively effected me long term or caused much frustration.

As for PenFed I have had nothing bad to report and really enjoy the $40-$50 dollar cash rebates that are credited to my account each month.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:40 AM   #35
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REWahoo, this PenFed Visa card sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

Despite their efforts to placate you, you may still want to consider cancelling. Even though you are retired, I'm sure there are other ways you'd rather spend your time.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:52 AM   #36
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Just out of curiosity because of this thread, I signed on to a Discovercard account that was closed due to a possible data breach a year ago. I can still get into the account and look at my old statements. I did have to call them and reactivate my access, but it was no big deal. Sounds like PenFed needs to update their practices.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:12 AM   #37
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I think this problem(fraud) could have happened on any card.

I've used PenFed credit card for several years with zero problems.

Glad to hear they are sending the paper copies free, as it should be.

When I got the notice of paperless statements, I did whatever it said to keep them coming on paper for free.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:21 AM   #38
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When I got the notice of paperless statements, I did whatever it said to keep them coming on paper for free.
I believe PenFed charges for paper credit union statements (non CC) unless you opt for online. They still provide paper CC statements via mail at no charge.

BTW, I received a second email from PenFed, this in response to my reply when asked why I had reverted to paper CC statements:

Quote:
If an account of yours was closed due to fraud or compromise, and the statements are no longer available online, we would be happy to provide them to you free of charge. Please indicate exactly what statements you need and we will deliver them to your place of residence. I would recommend that you return to e-statements however, if you are able to access them. The are more timely, because you don't have to wait for the statement to arrive in the mail. A paper statement, while a valuable record, can take longer to arrive and may not have as up to date information as you will find online.

If you need further assistance, please contact us.


Sincerely,

Xxxxxx Xxxxxxxx

Pentagon Federal Credit Union
Looks like they need to improve their internal communication....
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:53 AM   #39
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I believe PenFed charges for paper credit union statements (non CC) unless you opt for online. They still provide paper CC statements via mail at no charge.

.
This thread was started credit card specific, and that was what I was referring to.
When I got the notice 2-3 months ago about the credit card statement, I opted out of paperless and stayed with paper.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:17 PM   #40
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I give up on trying to store my own records. I just put my faith in the online records. The odds of me needing an unavailable record seem pretty low, and the impact to me relatively low if the record is unavailable.
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