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Old 12-10-2014, 06:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thefinancebuff View Post
What's PP?
I think the OP used it as shorthand for "pension plan" in this case, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time or the last time!
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:19 PM   #22
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Yes, pension plan! I am really bad at titles but really I am trying to pay all others back for their use of short hand that takes me for ever to figure out what they are referring to! Looks like I did good!

I really hate to see doors opening like this.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:45 PM   #23
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The approval of the PP cuts made my decision for me. If they can touch that theres no stopping them in the future with other retirement funds. I have a running yrly debate with our accountant that there will be a time when they touch our 401k $. He says no way. With so many yrs to go I do believe I will see it in my lifetime. Personally I'll keep what we have in retirement accounts invested but don't plan on further contributions.
This seems fanciful and you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. The pension plan "cuts" are reducing the extent to which pensions which promised benefits but didn't fund them are allowed to reduce the promises in the underfunded plan, ostensibly before pension guarantee funds wind up holding the bag for the empty promises.

This is completely different from 401k accounts, which are by definition fully funded with your contributions - and possibly your employer's if there is matching. Sure, anything political can always be a risk, but there's no particular reason to equate these scenarios and no reason to think 401k's are under attack except as fodder for extreme fear mongering political posturing.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:09 PM   #24
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:25 PM   #25
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Changes to pensions are always possible because the government, employers and the justice system have no problem in punishing the pension recipients rather than those that didn't live up to their promises.....be that the government and taxpayers or companies and shareholders. It seems strange to underfund a pension plan and then punish the pensioners for the misdeeds of others. This is especially the case if the pension is largely funded from employee contributions.
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Pension Plan cuts
Old 12-11-2014, 07:28 AM   #26
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Pension Plan cuts

A ruling last month by an Illinois circuit judge struck down a recent bill that cut state pensions.

Here is the judge's ruling.

This is informational only. Please don't go non-linear, pound your fists on the table, and remember - no politics! (The Mod Squad will spank you).

http://www.suaa.org/assets/pdf/2014/...11.21.2014.pdf
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Old 12-11-2014, 08:28 AM   #27
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Changes to pensions are always possible because the government, employers and the justice system have no problem in punishing the pension recipients rather than those that didn't live up to their promises.....be that the government and taxpayers or companies and shareholders. It seems strange to underfund a pension plan and then punish the pensioners for the misdeeds of others. This is especially the case if the pension is largely funded from employee contributions.
My brother retired at 48 after 25 years with the Social Security Administration, never contributing a dime to the fund he spent his life giving away at every opportunity. He's been retired for 14 years, already, golfing 4 or 5 days a week at the free courses in The Villages, Florida. He spends his summers at his sig-other's house in Wisconsin. She, also, took an early-out from SSA.

[mod edit]
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:24 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyman View Post
A ruling last month by an Illinois circuit judge struck down a recent bill that cut state pensions.

Here is the judge's ruling.

This is informational only. Please don't go non-linear, pound your fists on the table, and remember - no politics! (The Mod Squad will spank you).

http://www.suaa.org/assets/pdf/2014/...11.21.2014.pdf
An important detail that non-Illinoisans probably are not aware of - our State Constitution has some wording that State pensions shall not be diminished.

Here it is:

Quote:
SECTION 5. PENSION AND RETIREMENT RIGHTS
Membership in any pension or retirement system of the
State, any unit of local government or school district, or
any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an
enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which
shall not be diminished or impaired.
-ERD50
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Old 12-11-2014, 10:00 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Texconsin View Post
My brother retired at 48 after 25 years with the Social Security Administration, never contributing a dime to the fund he spent his life giving away at every opportunity. He's been retired for 14 years, already, golfing 4 or 5 days a week at the free courses in The Villages, Florida. He spends his summers at his sig-other's house in Wisconsin. She, also, took an early-out from SSA.

[mod edit]
Your brother contributed 25 years of service. His compensation included a pension.
25 years ago nobody wanted your brothers government job but now after globalization and the outsourcing of America many people are just jealous of people like your brother that chose a government job career path.

Are you happy for your brother. Or jealous like many people who got screwed by corporate capitalism.
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:52 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Texconsin View Post
My brother retired at 48 after 25 years with the Social Security Administration, never contributing a dime to the fund he spent his life giving away at every opportunity. He's been retired for 14 years, already, golfing 4 or 5 days a week at the free courses in The Villages, Florida. He spends his summers at his sig-other's house in Wisconsin. She, also, took an early-out from SSA.

[mod edit]
If he didn't pay into social security, that implies he was under the old CSRS retirement system. He paid into it at the rate of 7% of his salary, a higher rate than if he was paying into SS.
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Old 12-11-2014, 02:32 PM   #31
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Texconsin, Ordinarily, retiring at age 48 with 25 yrs would not qualify him for immediate pension benefits. To do so he was in a special circumstance or special age sensitive carrier field or he had saving to use until delayed benefits. I don't think SSA employees have age sensitive fields but they may have downsized with incentives to leave. So?




Eligibility
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Old 12-11-2014, 04:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texconsin View Post
My brother retired at 48 after 25 years with the Social Security Administration, never contributing a dime to the fund he spent his life giving away at every opportunity. He's been retired for 14 years, already, golfing 4 or 5 days a week at the free courses in The Villages, Florida. He spends his summers at his sig-other's house in Wisconsin. She, also, took an early-out from SSA.

[mod edit]
Geeze, I wonder what my relatives say about my retiring at 54 and goofing off for the last 8 years.
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:34 PM   #33
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Geeze, I wonder what my relatives say about my retiring at 54 and goofing off for the last 8 years.

Easy. "Get back to work, you good for nothing bum!"

At least that's what some people I know would say.

Or, even worse, "You sure are lucky!"

GRRRRR..... I really abhor that comment.
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by nun View Post
This is especially the case if the pension is largely funded from employee contributions.

Would a pension funded from employee contributions be in trouble? I thought most of the pension issues were because most of the contribution burden is on the employer and they did not put in as much as they should have?
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:39 PM   #35
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Would a pension funded from employee contributions be in trouble? I thought most of the pension issues were because most of the contribution burden is on the employer and they did not put in as much as they should have?
Some state and public pensions are largely funded through payroll deductions. Still if the employers do not pay their share in, the funds can be left underfunded by some people's mathematics leading to calls for pension reductions.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:26 PM   #36
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originally posted by growing_older This seems fanciful and you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. The pension plan "cuts" are reducing the extent to which pensions which promised benefits but didn't fund them are allowed to reduce the promises in the underfunded plan, ostensibly before pension guarantee funds wind up holding the bag for the empty promises.

This is completely different from 401k accounts, which are by definition fully funded with your contributions - and possibly your employer's if there is matching. Sure, anything political can always be a risk, but there's no particular reason to equate these scenarios and no reason to think 401k's are under attack except as fodder for extreme fear mongering political posturing.
Pension measure seen as model for further cuts

Didn't need to be a rocket scientist to see this coming! No telling what will come of it but just opening the door is bad!
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:17 PM   #37
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Pension measure seen as model for further cuts

Didn't need to be a rocket scientist to see this coming! No telling what will come of it but just opening the door is bad!
Yes lobbyists like the Koch brothers have spent big money to open this door.

All pensions are now on the table to be cut or eliminated.

Teachers,cops,military,firefighters,etc. will be next after the Koch brothers dismantle the Teamsters,machinists,steel,airline, etc, pensions.

In my state they(Koch brothers) are working hard to screw the teachers out of their pension.

Its pretty sad this is pretty much happening behind closed doors.
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:44 PM   #38
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Yes lobbyists like the Koch brothers have spent big money to open this door.

All pensions are now on the table to be cut or eliminated.

Teachers,cops,military,firefighters,etc. will be next after the Koch brothers dismantle the Teamsters,machinists,steel,airline, etc, pensions.

In my state they(Koch brothers) are working hard to screw the teachers out of their pension.

Its pretty sad this is pretty much happening behind closed doors.
My oh my. Them thar Koch brothers are pretty darn busy. I'm sure glad you know what's going on behind those closed doors and can keep us informed.

Public pensions are very frequently underfunded. Many are so severely underfunded that it's hard to imagine the retirees actually getting all of the supposedly promised benefits. Somehow blaming a bogey man (or two) for the malfeasance of generations of politicians seems rather pointless.
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Old 12-15-2014, 03:21 PM   #39
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Thanks for an interesting discussion and staying mostly on topic.
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