Personal Umbrella versus Personal Excess Liability policies ?

[Martha]

I agree with Brewer on talking to the agent.

One thing I really wanted with our insurance policies was coverage for people working on our property, not just domestic employees. Of course, you want to hire people that have their own workers compensation insurance but what if they don't or if it lapsed? Plus, most guys you hire to shovel snow aren't going to have workers compensation. So I made sure we had coverage for those kind of claims. I see that on your excess liability policy that sort of claim is not covered. It may not be covered on your homeowner's policy either.

The golf course type accident should be covered under your homeowners policy and thus covered under the excess liability policy.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha I agree with Brewer on talking to the agent.

I agree also, but.... don't all these contracts have wording to the effect... ' no promises, conditions, or statements made by any representative of the company shall override the provisions of the contract'?

So, while it is a good idea to discuss this with the agent, you could walk away feeling like he/she answered every question fully and professionally, but maybe they are just good at appeasing their clients, tell them what they want to hear, and you could still be left hangin' in the breeze. Still, you may learn what you need to know, but I never feel confident that I got the right answers.

I feel like a numbskull when it comes to insurance. The last time I tried to get serious about understanding my policies, I got some books that just got me more confused. The lawyers say ' well, that is really an insurance question', and the insurance guys say ' well, that is really a legal question'.... I got 'analysis paralysis' and made no changes.

Quote:

One thing I really wanted with our insurance policies was coverage for people working on our property, not just domestic employees.

Yes, I was surprised to see that excluded. I will check our umbrella for that, I was assuming we had that coverage.

-ERD50

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha I agree with Brewer on talking to the agent. One thing I really wanted with our insurance policies was coverage for people working on our property, not just domestic employees. Of course, you want to hire people that have their own workers compensation insurance but what if they don't or if it lapsed? Plus, most guys you hire to shovel snow aren't going to have workers compensation. So I made sure we had coverage for those kind of claims. I see that on your excess liability policy that sort of claim is not covered. It may not be covered on your homeowner's policy either. The golf course type accident should be covered under your homeowners policy and thus covered under the excess liability policy.

Well, when I hire any outfit, I get it in writing that they are insured and bonded...........otherwise, no dice. I probably pay more for such jobs, but I feel it is worth the cost............

[JustCurious]

Linney,

I am a practicing civil litigation attorney in Florida, and in my experience the answer to your question is counter-intuitive. (Please understand that the information and opinion that I am giving you is based on my education and experience in Florida.... the answer may vary in your state)

The answer is that you should get auto and home insurance with reasonable liability limits, and forget about umbrella or excess policies. First of all, it is a highly unlikely occurence that you will ever do anything that will cause significant injury to someone else that will result in a very large liability. And, despite the propaganda that you get from the media, there is no frivolous lawsuit crisis. I have been involved with many hundreds of civil lawsuits in my career, and I have NEVER seen a frivolous lawsuit get very far, or get anything more than a nominal or nuisance type settlement (a few thousand at the very most). I can tell you that most judges and lawyers and jurors go out of their way to dispose of frivolous lawsuits.

Now, is it possible that you will injury someone and cause significant injuries and liability? Yes. Is that the purpose of insurance... to cover the ulikely but catastrophic? Yes. However, here is the counter-intuitive part....if you get too much insurance, you will become more of a target for an opportunistic plaintiff's attorney who wants to get at your insurance money. Without getting too technical, an insurance company has just as much of an obligation to defend you in a lawsuit if you have a 10k policy or a 1M policy. And, they can't settle without getting a release of liability. So, the practical result (in virtually EVERY case that I have been involved in, save one out of hundreds) is that the plaintiff's counsel will settle with you to get your insurance money, assuming it is a reasonable amount (say 100k), because he knows it is highly unlikely he will ever collect against you.

Now, you say, what if you have 1M..well, the answer is that most of that money is probably in retirement accounts which are exempt from attachment. Also (in Florida) if you have a joint account with your spouse, that money is exempt too. (all of it, not just half) Also, your house is fully exempt, even if you have a mansion. Also, Social Security is exempt, and any interest in a life insurance policy. If you have any significant non-exempt money, you would be covered anyway since you would have reasonable policy limits and the plaintiff will settle to get those limits.

Having said all that, it is theoretically possible that you could be hit with a judgment in excess of your reasonable limits because the plaintiff's attorney refused to settle, but I think that is just about as likely as you being struck by lightning in my experience.

[73ss454]

Thanks JC,

I'm moving to Fla. on friday and this is great info.

[Patrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious Now, you say, what if you have 1M..well, the answer is that most of that money is probably in retirement accounts which are exempt from attachment. Also (in Florida) if you have a joint account with your spouse, that money is exempt too. (all of it, not just half) Also, your house is fully exempt, even if you have a mansion. Also, Social Security is exempt, and any interest in a life insurance policy.

JustCurious, is pension income exempt also? Is that how OJ got out of paying the Goldmans?