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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 03:49 PM   #21
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

It's definitely a complex issue. :P
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 04:12 PM   #22
 
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

I think that all of the folks that are against Social Security should just refuse to accept any money from the 'System'. - That will show em'!

- Just as I despise the War in Iraq and I'm forced to pay for it and get nothing in return!

And since they are using the Social Security funds to pay for all of the stupid decisions of this administration, and the Social Security program is still running a Surplus since FDR - It's a much more thought out and fruitful program.

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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 04:16 PM   #23
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Hmmm, raising the age for full benefits solved 68% of the shortfall. Raising the amount of income subject to the tax to $118k got it up to 94%. Close enough for gummint work.

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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 04:53 PM   #24
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

It strikes me that means testing social security does a real disservice to just about everybody. Of course, I haven't really thought deeply about it, so feel free to flame me - I have a thick skin :P

In any event, despite all the rhetoric to the contrary, SS has become a RETIREMENT program. Even the Federal government in designing the FERS system identifies SS as the third leg of the government's retirement program (basic DBP, TSP and SS). People need to be able to plan for retirement and means testing disrupts that planning. Pensions, withdrawals from IRAs, pretty much whatever - counting them against SS would destroy the basic concept.
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 05:10 PM   #25
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

BOHICA: in a society concerned about the lack of savings, means testing would only exacerbate the problem.* to a large extent, as things currently stand, those who act responsibly already get the shaft.
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 05:11 PM   #26
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Don't confuse Capitalism with Democracy!
And dont confuse an imperial republic with a democracy either...

Laurence...its pretty easy to figure out. Rich people make the laws. Rich people approve them. Rich people stuff money and whatnot into the pockets of the lawmakers and law signers. Rich people take out television and newspaper ads, craft stories and marketing campaigns to get people "on board".

That they get tax friendly scenarios that appeal to rich people is a surprise?

The average joe, up to his eyeballs in his job, debt and family has scant time to notice.
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 06:21 PM   #27
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Oh, those dadburned rich folks!! They've written the tax laws so that everything benefits them! Why, the top 50% of income earners pay over 96% of the individual income tax! And the real fat cats, the top 1%, have found a way to pay over 34% of the nation's individual income taxes! Obviously, they write the tax laws. They are a crafty lot!

When folks who pay, effectively, no taxes have more votes than those who are doing the paying, what will be the brake on more taxation? Just a thought.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...onomic__1.html
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 06:31 PM   #28
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Thats true!

And the top 1% average $719K in annual income while the top 5% average $276K, while the lower 60% are bringing in a whoping median of $21K.

As a former 1%er, I felt really, really screwed when I wrote that check.

Wouldnt matter if they balanced the tax across all income levels. The tax burden of the top 5% would barely drop even if the bottom 60% put all of their money in.

Money is the grease on this wheel. Wheels gotta keep turning...
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 09:55 PM   #29
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

..
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 10:05 PM   #30
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Laurence...its pretty easy to figure out. Rich people make the laws. Rich people approve them. Rich people stuff money and whatnot into the pockets of the lawmakers and law signers. Rich people take out television and newspaper ads, craft stories and marketing campaigns to get people "on board".
Just for clarification (I'm sure you already know this) when you say "rich" people, I assume you mean really, really, stinkin' filthy rich people, WITH special interests. I'm a 1%er as well, and I have absolutely zero influence on the system.

SS is a political Ponzi scheme, but unfortunately one that isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And like all pyramid schemes it requires an ever expanding base of people, wage slaves in this case, to keep it going. Hmmm, where could we find a large amount of wage slaves to keep SS solvent? (Hint: rhymes with Lexico)

I didn't play the "game", did it have an option for increasing the worker-to-retire ratio through increased immigration?
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-23-2006, 12:36 AM   #31
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Ash, you made 400k last year? I think you could buy a little influence with that kind of money!

Our best year (the last one) got us to about the top 6%, from what I can tell, and we'll probably never get that high up the food chain again. Still, we didn't break above the SS cap.

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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-23-2006, 03:20 AM   #32
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by ash

SS Wall Street is a political Ponzi scheme, but unfortunately one that isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And like all pyramid schemes it requires an ever expanding base of people, wage slaves in this case, to keep it going. Hmmm, where could we find a large amount of wage slaves to keep SS Wall Street solvent? (Hint: rhymes with Lexico)

Ummmm, one person's Mexico is another person's China, I suppose.
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-23-2006, 08:41 AM   #33
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Ash, you made 400k last year? I think you could buy a little influence with that kind of money!
Just about 300K, so perhaps I'm only a 2 or 3%er.

Though my point is the same, that ain't enough to buy influence, UNLESS you have some really specialized interest. In other words, my only interest would be to "lower taxes", and for every dollar I spend on a political solution trying to do that, I'd certainly make less than a dollar in return.

However, if I had some very specialized interest, like say trying to remove "regulation X-425 dealing with the manufacture of a certain pesticide", perhaps my ratio of expense to return could be positive.

I don't know anyone in my income neighborhood that is buying political power, we're all working for a living. I think it takes a lot more money. A LOT MORE. But I am willing to admit that I could be naive about the whole thing, since I have no personal fascination with trying to purchase political power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Our best year (the last one) got us to about the top 6%, from what I can tell, and we'll probably never get that high up the food chain again. Still, we didn't break above the SS cap.
I'm at the top of my game as well, probably no where to go but down from here, so I'm living well beneath my means. I am above the SS cap, so I get a nice "raise" every year in Spring though!
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-23-2006, 08:42 AM   #34
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadpole
Ummmm, one person's Mexico is another person's China, I suppose.
Either would suffice, perhaps we'll need both by 2050!
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Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-23-2006, 10:53 AM   #35
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Re: Play the Social Security Game

Ash, that's why the mediocre rich, like yourself join Political Action Commitees and things like that. You can afford to pool $10 grand with a thousand others' $10 grand to bribe a congressman affect change. But your point about specialized interest is well taken.

Being naive on this issue is not exactly something to hang your head about.
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:07 PM   #36
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Maybe if we stopped giving it to people who didn't earn it. Right now people who were homemakers and never paid in a cent get as much as some who paid the maximum.
My mom only had a few months SS covered work in her life and then worked 20 years in the Post Office earning a little pension. She couldn't double dip so couldn't collect SS but after my dad died she started getting 4K a year from SS based on what she would have gotten as a housewife minus her pension. Her sister never worked that I ever heard about and she still gets SS and if she is ever widowed will get even more money. Grandma worked about 10 years in her life full time. She collected from ages 62 to 98 based on what grandpa earned.
If we are going to pay people based on someone else's earnings we should double the tax on those paying for two. You don't automatically get extra 401K or IRA money for supporting more people why should you get more SS?
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:40 PM   #37
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My MIL, never worked in the US, receives higher payment from SS than does her sister who worked 30 years.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:33 AM   #38
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My MIL, never worked in the US, receives higher payment from SS than does her sister who worked 30 years.
Does your MIL receive a pension from another country?
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:34 AM   #39
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I like the idea of the game, and wish everyone who has an opinion on SS "reform" would play it once to get an idea of size of the problem. Some may be surprised that it's easier to "fix" than they had expected.
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If indeed there is a problem
Old 07-24-2007, 02:49 PM   #40
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If indeed there is a problem

In the worst case scenario there is. In the best case there is not. Most likely it will prove to be smaller than projected. Much smaller than the war has already cost.
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