Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-21-2006, 07:22 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,068
Play the Social Security Game

Want to take a shot at how to solve the Social Security problem?

The American Academy of Actuaries has created a Social Security game on their website. "Many solutions have been proposed. but no single approach is likely to succed alone." The game "...lets you decide the trade-offs and constructs a solution that will keep Social Security solvent."

The game is located here: http://www.actuary.org/socialsecurity/game.html


__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-21-2006, 07:59 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Play the Social Security Game

I didn't see my plans in the game.* * I figure we need to take a two-tiered approach:

1) Follow Canada's lead and institude a point system for immigration.* * Basically, you get to move here if you're rich, smart, beautiful, and thin.

2) Institute Wab's child tax credit.* *Parents who are rich, smart, beautiful, and thin get a $10K credit for each baby they have.
__________________

__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-21-2006, 08:02 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,068
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
I didn't see my plans in the game. I figure we need to take a two-tiered approach:

1) Follow Canada's lead and institude a point system for immigration. Basically, you get to move here if you're rich, smart, beautiful, and thin.

2) Institute Wab's child tax credit. Parents who are rich, smart, beautiful, and thin get a $10K credit for each baby they have.
Yeah, well they described it as a game, not as an alternative universe.

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-21-2006, 08:09 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Well, I am thin...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-21-2006, 08:37 PM   #5
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
Re: Play the Social Security Game

REWahoo - I almost fell out of my chair when I read your response.

__________________
virginia is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-21-2006, 10:01 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Ed_The_Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,292
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Basically, you get to move here if you're rich, smart, beautiful, and thin.
None of the above. Just another G*d-d*mned Yankee engineer who, like my Pa, who will go where no-one esle wants to go and do what no-one else wants to do.

Gypsy
Wooden shoes and wooden head
__________________
my bumpersticker:
"I am not in a hurry.
I am retired.
And I don't care how big your truck is."
Ed_The_Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 09:31 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Unless I missed it...

The game didn't have the option to just up the US debt levels.

Ignoring the debt option is not realistic.
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 09:44 AM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Yeah, well they described it as a game, not as an alternative universe.

I reject your reality, and substitute my own!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 09:52 AM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
tryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,449
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Interesting ... I said "eliminate the SS payroll cap" and solved 93% of the problem.

Could it be THAT simple?
__________________
FIRE'd since 2005
tryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 09:57 AM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Play the Social Security Game

That'll work out pretty well until the very well paid people that get whacked by it call their congresscritter buddies and have them put it back to the way it used to be.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 10:50 AM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Isn't it amazing? SS tax is the most regressive beast on the planet, yet somehow the cap is a third rail. The latest tax cut on investments and AMT is claimed to help the middle class, I didn't notice Joe Six-Pack was swimming in dividend checks, my bad! You can either laugh or cry.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 12:17 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Isn't it amazing? SS tax is the most regressive beast on the planet, yet somehow the cap is a third rail. The latest tax cut on investments and AMT is claimed to help the middle class, I didn't notice Joe Six-Pack was swimming in dividend checks, my bad! You can either laugh or cry.
Well, you have to admit that the SS benefits are weighted heavily to favor lower income workers (would that be "regressive" or "progressive? Or, just socialist?). Of course SS was designed to be an intergenerational wealth transfer mechanism, in the future it will likely increasingly be a means of transferring wealth from higher-income folks to poorer ones.

Is it time to just start means testing benefits, calling it the dole, and be done with it? That's the direction I think we are heading.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 12:29 PM   #13
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Of course SS was designed to be an intergenerational wealth transfer mechanism, in the future it will likely increasingly be a means of transferring wealth from higher-income folks to poorer ones.
Are you advocating that we need to back to the good old days of 1932?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 12:49 PM   #14
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem


Is it time to just start means testing benefits, calling it the dole,* and be done with it?* *That's the direction I think we are heading.
Hey, it's practically there, anyway. Raise/remove the cap, maybe have a graduated elimination of benefits if your retirement income exceeds ~100k (phase out from ~150k to 200k?). Beats putting old widows out on the street when the fund goes belly up.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 01:21 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Hey, it's practically there, anyway.* Raise/remove the cap, maybe have a graduated elimination of benefits if your retirement income exceeds ~100k (phase out from ~150k to 200k?).
Tend to agree with you on this one Laurence.* But, since we're means testing those collecting SS, I think it would also be appropriate to test assets as well.* IMO, it wouldn't be fair to reduce the SS of some chump collecting a dbp because a dbp is income while letting another who supports himself off of non-taxable withdrawals from his multimillion bux portfolio goes free.

Assests to include house, cars, cellars full of expensive wine, financial portfolio, income property, works of art and that sort of thing.* The little ole retired lady still holding on to her million+ dollar home despite a low income should get hit just like a renter with a taxable pension coming in.*
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 02:57 PM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Re: Play the Social Security Game


"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs!" - Karl Marx

Hey, it's worked everywhere (except where it has been tried).
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 03:09 PM   #17
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Play the Social Security Game

eh, I think it's a bit too soon to start making the communist inferences. BTW, does that kill a thread the way Nazi references do?

I'd like to think we are allowed to have a social safety net without being Godless communists. If we have to make a change, making it so Bill Gates and I aren't paying the same amount of Social Security tax sounds like a good start. The initial commercials for Social Security had widows and orphans buying milk and bread with the check. I don't think it was meant to give millionairs an additional income stream.

Youbet, intentionally or unintentionally, you bring up a good point, what constitutes deserving? If an old lady's home is a million dollars simply because the community built up around the ol' farmstead, should she be compelled to sell and move someplace new (and scary) in her old age to get cash?

As far as non-taxable withdrawals falling under the radar...why you messin' with my plan?
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 03:27 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
eh, I think it's a bit too soon to start making the communist inferences. BTW, does that kill a thread the way Nazi references do?

Nope--I've tried it before and the threads live on unhindered.

If we start talking about taxing wealth to fix SS, things are going to start gettng pretty close to home for a lot of folks here. I think, according to the mindset of the average Joe--anybody who can afford to retire before they do is stinking rich. Luckily, don't mind being taxed to pay the SS benefits of people who bought a new car every two years and lived on credit.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 03:34 PM   #19
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Play the Social Security Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs!" - Karl Marx

Hey, it's worked everywhere (except where it has been tried).
Don't confuse Capitalism with Democracy!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Play the Social Security Game
Old 05-22-2006, 03:39 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Play the Social Security Game

That's right samclem. *If you were silly enough to LBYM and save and save, you deserve to have your SS reduced. *What were you thinking?

I've been reading posts from a few of the younger folks on the board saying we worry (obcess?) too much about having enough $$$ when we RE to ensure we don't have to shop at Pet World when we're 75 or 80. *The concept of means testing SS seems to give additional creditability to their position. *Memories of good times from your youth such as travel or entertainment can't, so far, be taxed later.

Spend! Consume! Enjoy!

__________________

__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
social security


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Former Military Social Security credits - interesting Fireup2020 FIRE and Money 1 04-10-2007 10:24 PM
Fixing Social Security game Buddha44 FIRE and Money 104 02-05-2007 07:14 AM
Too much income to take Social Security this year Elderdude FIRE and Money 7 10-02-2006 06:00 PM
Maximizing Social Security Benefits eyenitnoy FIRE and Money 20 06-18-2006 09:29 PM
Social Security will last longer ...maybe mickeyd FIRE and Money 7 06-28-2004 07:55 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:22 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.