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View Poll Results: What was your savings w/o SS divided by your budgeted spending?
Less than 10 7 5.26%
10-15 1 0.75%
15-20 15 11.28%
20-25 20 15.04%
Over 25 90 67.67%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-11-2016, 08:02 AM   #21
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Like others here, my literal answer is currently 18. But DW is still w*rking, and w eboth have pensions awaiting us in the future. Further, we have significant fudge factors built in our "expenses." When DW retires, our actual drawdown will be something like 2.5%.
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:22 AM   #22
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With only investable assets, it's a shade under 65. Using total NW, it's at 77.
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:15 PM   #23
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I believe we're at 21.5, but I'm not sure why to not consider SS (save for the period of early retirement). I'm not too concerned, in part because I work part-time online under modified employment and will do so for at least a year and probably another few years, DW will still work for at least for 4 more years until I qualify for SS (for now).
So I plan to withdraw at a higher rate than 4% if necessary after DW retires, until first I start drawing SS then reduce the draw to close to 4%, then reduce further when DW qualifies for SS.
The more time between retirement and SS, the more the number (over 25) would be important. Currently I'm not withdrawing anything, which will continue next year. After that, I'll probably withdraw a very small percentage until DW retires--a gradual glidepath. We also distinguish between the required budget and large discretionary items like overseas travel.
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:25 PM   #24
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Infinity. I don't have a budget. No reason for that waste of time. LBYM.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:32 PM   #25
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I have 3 figures.

1) Now, not yet retired, with a mortgage payment on a big 3500 sqft house - I have 17x savings
2) If I downsize to a smaller home now, using my equity to purchase a smaller home with cash (totally debt free) - probably 20x - 22x
3) If I decide to move to the Philippines to retire - 38x - 40x

We are seriously considering downsizing in the next 1 - 2 years.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:57 PM   #26
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The young wife and I are planning to hang it up in 3 years. At that time, two cola'd pensions will fully cover our expenses. After 1.5 years, my social security will kick in and give us about a 30% buffer. And if both pensions and social security should vanish, our liquid nest egg will be 30x expenses from the start. If we sold the house, that would be another 8-9x expenses (given that about 25-30% of our current expenses are taken up by real property tax, homeowners insurance and maintenance, we could afford to rent a pretty decent place). Hopefully, that won't be necessary, and we can simply spend our time going on extravagant vacations.

That is the plan, at least. It could all go to hell in a handbasket tomorrow.
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:39 PM   #27
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FIREmenow, I ERed in late 2008 at 45 when the markets were crashing. But regardless of that, the ratio you ask has been a moving target for me.

First, if I use only my non-retirement assets, a subset of my total portfolio (because I lack unfettered access to my IRA until I turn ~59.5), the ratio at the time I ERed was about 28. Once the markets began bouncing back, that ratio rose because my expenses didn't grow as quickly (or they actually fell at times). Using that same reduced denominator, that ratio has risen to about 36.

But once you include my IRA that ratio rises to about 56. And that doesn't include my other "reinforcements" such as SS and my frozen company pension which become available in my 60s which is less than 10 years from now.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:23 PM   #28
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When people here talk about their annual spending (as a percentage of total or invested assets), do they tend to include as part of that spending whatever taxes (both ordinary income and capital gains taxes) you pay?

I am particularly focused on capital gains tax because around 80% of what I have saved is in taxable accounts, and I will have to accept some capital gain in order to generate liquidity in retirement.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by medved View Post
When people here talk about their annual spending (as a percentage of total or invested assets), do they tend to include as part of that spending whatever taxes (both ordinary income and capital gains taxes) you pay?

I am particularly focused on capital gains tax because around 80% of what I have saved is in taxable accounts, and I will have to accept some capital gain in order to generate liquidity in retirement.
Yes, I think most of us include all of our income taxes in our spending, or else specify that they are not included. Like you, much of my income comes from taxable accounts and the taxes can be quite different depending on my tax strategies.

For this poll, I used the number including taxes.

For other threads when we are asked what our spending is, I'd say it was "$xx,xxx, plus income taxes".
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medved View Post
When people here talk about their annual spending (as a percentage of total or invested assets), do they tend to include as part of that spending whatever taxes (both ordinary income and capital gains taxes) you pay?

I am particularly focused on capital gains tax because around 80% of what I have saved is in taxable accounts, and I will have to accept some capital gain in order to generate liquidity in retirement.

Yes, I do. But for me, taxes are almost negligible now that I'm retired.


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Old 04-11-2016, 10:41 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
The young wife and I are planning to hang it up in 3 years. At that time, two cola'd pensions will fully cover our expenses. After 1.5 years, my social security will kick in and give us about a 30% buffer. And if both pensions and social security should vanish, our liquid nest egg will be 30x expenses from the start. If we sold the house, that would be another 8-9x expenses (given that about 25-30% of our current expenses are taken up by real property tax, homeowners insurance and maintenance, we could afford to rent a pretty decent place). Hopefully, that won't be necessary, and we can simply spend our time going on extravagant vacations.

That is the plan, at least. It could all go to hell in a handbasket tomorrow.
Just 3 more years? This is getting EXCITING!

Sounds like your financial preparations are unusually solid. You'll be fine. I think you will be able to throw away that handbasket.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:54 PM   #32
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I polled us to over 25 x (33 x actual).

It's not that we are so rich as that annual spending is hugely variable. Being used to saving a large chunk of earnings trained us to keep a nice lifestyle with little spending. We can manage nicely with $20,000 gross which includes health insurance and a nice allowance for both of us. This is our first year out, so we are staying on the conservative side. Spending can ramp up as we feel more settled and comfortable.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by FIREmenow View Post
If I divide my budgeted spending into our planned savings total, I get about 18.6. I think this is the number that the adage 25x is needed to retire. It seems to work in RIP and Firecalc tools. Spending includes plan for SS, but SS not included in the division.

What's up with that? Am I that far behind? Does EVERYONE discount SSI entirely and assume more savings? Is this too complex to consider with the SS variable?

Would you retirees care to share what your multiplier number was when you retired? Did you factor in SS in your decision?
I do not discount SS, but I leave a lot of pad in the retirement plan in case it is less than expected. We use mainly liability matching and the plan is to keep our annual expenses lower than our (interest income + SS + pensions + hobby income).
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:44 PM   #34
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I'm not retired yet. My savings to spending ratio is 31x. I'm targeting a 35x multiplier as my FI target. Recent and projected market returns are a concern for me given our planned 40+ year retirement time frame.

It's interesting reading actual experiences from other posters. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being to conservative with my 35x goal.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:16 PM   #35
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I am also not sure why one would not factor in SS at all, unless retirement savings or other income streams were high enough that $500K - $1M+ is chump change. At current investment rates, the net present value of SS for a working couple at the maximum benefit end is worth over $1M, $600K at the lower end:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/valuing-...balance-sheet/

At current projections, without program changes SS benefits may drop to 75% in 2035, but the projections are not 0%.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/...v70n3p111.html
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:30 AM   #36
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Without pension and SS income, my ratio is 15.6. But I will be getting a pension that, along with interest and capital gains, cover our required expenses, so our budget is a very comfortable one. If I lost my pension completely we could cut back on spending so that the ratio would be 23, again not including SS.
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Old 04-18-2016, 02:37 PM   #37
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Quit w*rking at 49, so given what could be 40+ years in retirement we are targeting a portfolio withdrawal rate <2.5%. Investable assets are currently about 50 x annual household expenses (including taxes).
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:05 PM   #38
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It's not surprising to see the majority choosing the ">25X" category. After all, the 25X ratio goes with a 4% WR, and many here have stated they go with 3.5% WR or lower.

And yet, I doubt that everybody here will live for another 25 years. And there's SS on top of that WR. This means that our offsprings or heirs will have a great time. May they retire early too, and at a younger age than we did.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:36 PM   #39
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The Over-25 category should have been split up into more subgroups such as 25-30, 30-35, 35-40, 40-45, 45-50, >50, perhaps.
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Old 04-19-2016, 06:02 AM   #40
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I am also not sure why one would not factor in SS at all
Me neither. Governments can be fickle but most western ones tend to honor their SS type agreements.

In my case I do a 30% discount (roughly) on what I expect to get from the equivalent of what SS is in the US.

Reasons being inflation (it's a long way out for me), government funding (cost of living adjustments), taxation and my current country has made the minimum age contingent on life expectancy.

Not that I am accruing much, but every little bit helps.
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