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View Poll Results: Has Your Home's Value Rebounded?
YES - doing a happy dance!! 51 42.15%
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Never really depreciated since 2005 23 19.01%
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:31 PM   #61
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....I feel my share of taxes should be zero. ...
So you don't think you should contribute to the cost of public infrastructure that we all use or public education that you (and society) benefit from, etc. and that the rest of us should pay your share? I'm just trying to understand a POV that the high income should pay zero in taxes as it seems extreme to me.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:35 PM   #62
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Late to this thread but we sold our main home in late 2012. Probably 20% lower that it was allegedly worth earlier but 2-3 times what we paid for it 25 years earlier and a small profit if I had keep good track of the cost of improvements over the years.

Our current home is probably worth a bit less than what we have into it but I think we will do fine in the long run.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:15 PM   #63
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So you don't think you should contribute to the cost of public infrastructure that we all use or public education that you (and society) benefit from, etc. and that the rest of us should pay your share? I'm just trying to understand a POV that the high income should pay zero in taxes as it seems extreme to me.
Not in the zero tax camp...but if you are talking about _property taxes_...
I see no sense in asking the 70 year old widow to pay the same amount of property taxes as the 35 year old with 4 kids in public school.
Most property taxes go to public K-12 schools. Why should the woman pay for this forever? To get a reduction in most places you must be at/near the poverty level. Should be automatic when you hit a certain age.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:23 PM   #64
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I'm not sure my house ever lost value. The rate of appreciation came to a dead stop for a few years, so if you factor in general inflation, I guess that's a loss. Bought in 2000 and current market value is right about double that with several identical houses selling in the area recently at that 2x price.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:24 PM   #65
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Not in the zero tax camp...but if you are talking about _property taxes_...
I see no sense in asking the 70 year old widow to pay the same amount of property taxes as the 35 year old with 4 kids in public school.
Most property taxes go to public K-12 schools. Why should the woman pay for this forever? To get a reduction in most places you must be at/near the poverty level. Should be automatic when you hit a certain age.
Agreed. It is especially sad when the 70 year old woman never had children!

Fortunately, there are a few states where you get a tax reduction at 65 but there are a lot of conditions which make too many people over 65 ineligible.

(I'm not in the zero tax camp either. )
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:25 PM   #66
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Zillow is flaky

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I dont put much stock in Zillow. They say my house has 3 bedrooms. It has 4.
Zillow says we have five bathrooms. With a bare 1060 square feet, and only two bedrooms, I can't imagine where the other three and a half bathrooms are hiding.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:07 PM   #67
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Not in the zero tax camp...but if you are talking about _property taxes_...
I see no sense in asking the 70 year old widow to pay the same amount of property taxes as the 35 year old with 4 kids in public school.
Most property taxes go to public K-12 schools. Why should the woman pay for this forever? To get a reduction in most places you must be at/near the poverty level. Should be automatic when you hit a certain age.
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Agreed. It is especially sad when the 70 year old woman never had children!

Fortunately, there are a few states where you get a tax reduction at 65 but there are a lot of conditions which make too many people over 65 ineligible.

(I'm not in the zero tax camp either. )
I see your points and school taxes have always been a tough one for me but I ultimately came to peace that we all benefit from an educated public (such as it is) and as a society long ago decided to share the cost across all of society via the property tax.

We have a fairly generous property tax relief scheme in our state, which provides assistance if property taxes exceed a percentage of income (conceptually similar to the Obamacare subsidies) to help make property taxes affordable for lower and middle income people.

While property tax relief is good in principle, it has an ugly side in that those who benefit from it have less incentive to vote against outrageous increases in school or municipal budgets since they are effectively immune from the resulting increase since what they pay in property tax is limited to a fixed percentage of their income.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:15 AM   #68
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Property market here in Beijing is completely different than in the US, or most places in the world for that matter. We did manage to buy on a major dip in the market in early 2009. By the time we moved in, prices were already on their way back up (per sq meter estimates the month we moved in were over 20% more than what we paid). Estimated value now is just under 3x what we paid. We're considering selling next year (when our tax liability will go way down, according to local policy that rewards "long term" ownership of 5 years or more) to lock in our gains -- we could move out to the suburbs to be near the kids school, buy a bigger place with a yard (we're in a condo on the 30th floor now) and not have to have a mortgage, and buy a car for me to drive to/from work and still have plenty of cash in the bank. On the other hand, a subway stop will open up within 10 minute walk of here in late 2014, making my commute much easier/faster and likely increasing values even more. Tough call. We may put it on the market and see what happens.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:21 PM   #69
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A couple random thoughts:

You have to live somewhere. Obviously we all want to buy low and sell high, but if you sell your house in an up market you just have to buy another house in an up market or pay someone else rent.

If you are moving from a smaller and cheaper home to a larger and more expensive home, the time to do so is in a down market. But, if you are downsizing from a larger home to something smaller and less expensive, the time to do so is in a seller's market when prices have risen.

If you have no intention of moving anytime soon, then it probably doesn't matter too much.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:23 PM   #70
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As for Zillow, you should claim your house and update the information if it isn't correct. It can only improve the accuracy for your Zestimate as well as the overall site's accuracy.
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:07 PM   #71
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A couple random thoughts:

You have to live somewhere. Obviously we all want to buy low and sell high, but if you sell your house in an up market you just have to buy another house in an up market or pay someone else rent.

If you are moving from a smaller and cheaper home to a larger and more expensive home, the time to do so is in a down market. But, if you are downsizing from a larger home to something smaller and less expensive, the time to do so is in a seller's market when prices have risen.

If you have no intention of moving anytime soon, then it probably doesn't matter too much.
That is what my Uncle says. He has watched his California property value wildly fluctuate for 40 years. Since he owns it outright and doesn't plan to move, he doesn't care. I love my house but I might move and/or purchase a winter place in the next 5 years so I'm watching property values closely.

The up-market may effect seniors who may need to rely on the value of their homes to sustain them through retirement so I'm curious about effect of the market on those who participate on reverse mortgages. (Not something I anticipate ever needing to do, thank God.)
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:01 PM   #72
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So you don't think you should contribute to the cost of public infrastructure that we all use or public education that you (and society) benefit from, etc. and that the rest of us should pay your share? I'm just trying to understand a POV that the high income should pay zero in taxes as it seems extreme to me.
I want to pay zero in taxes. I will be glad to pay plenty in fees for services rendered. Ideally there should be a way to track what government services I use, including things like police protection of my private property and other services you indicate above, and I will be glad to pay every penny as long as I have an option to not use those services. Taxes are not a fee. Taxes are money that goes into a black box where I have no idea if it is used for me or others. I will be glad to pay for what services I used but no more. Since the system is based on taxes and not fees, my ideal tax is zero in the absence of information of the true cost of services I really use.
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:52 PM   #73
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The thread is interesting and informative, so let's try to keep it on topic.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:34 AM   #74
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Zillow says ours is worth about twice what we paid for it in 2000. That's nice, but maybe we will move and maybe we won't.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:01 AM   #75
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As others have mentioned, whether or not your home price has rebounded is a hard thing to quantify. Rebounded as compared to what price level and what time period?

We just sold our home in late March and were not real happy with outcome but it could have been worse. Bought the home for $282k in 2001 and added built in bookshelves in the living area, hardwood floors throughout most of the main floor and totally renovated the kitchen with new cabinets and stainless steel appliances. Total cost approx $40k and we sold the house for $319k. I think we would have done much better in more normal times but then I've also read how people in other areas have fared much worse than we did so I also count us as lucky compared to many.

We put ours on the market early for our area and it sold very quickly. My wife and I both agree that was worth a few thousand alone just by not having to keep the house show ready for a couple of months and then having to vacate our house repeatedly on short notice to accommodate showings.

No sooner than we sold, everyone started talking about how quality homes were in short supply and sellers were getting better prices in our area. Timing makes a big difference but we were moving internationally so time was not our ally.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:20 AM   #76
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Have you checked lately?
I checked when this thread started
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:59 PM   #77
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Bought mine in 2009 when I moved to Austin. It is up 30+% based on neighbor sale.

It is almost 5K sqft. I enjoy my house a lot, but look forward to downsizing to maybe 3K sqft (as big as the current 1st floor), when younger one leaves in 2023.
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:06 PM   #78
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Listed today at same price as 2005. Comp. houses in neighborhood last year did not sell and are now rentals. I expect to see lowball offers if any but I have moved into her house closer to the heart of town.

heh heh heh - speculation is that local market has bottomed - but location, location, location. Will it hold true for my old subdivision?
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:37 PM   #79
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I checked when this thread started
I meant have you counted your bedrooms lately?
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:56 PM   #80
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Right now? more than double what we paid 20 yrs ago.
Still down $250k from the peak.
You got to live somewhere,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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