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View Poll Results: $90k in todays dollars for retirement would be...
Way more than I would ever need 99 29.03%
I would be happy, it is a bit more than I need 110 32.26%
It is about what i am targeting as an income 70 20.53%
It would be disappointing for my targeted income 43 12.61%
I would be terribly disappointed with this income 22 6.45%
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:01 PM   #141
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Not to mention the best drivers in the country
+2!
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:22 PM   #142
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Wow 1000X ?. I'm not sure I would be able to spend $90 million per year. But if I could, just think, at $90 million per year, a 30 year retirement would be $2.7 billion. A nice next door feller like Mr. Buffett could finance this level of retirement for a dozen of his best friends and still have enough money left to do it all over again.
OK, it may not be so easy for people like us. But I think we can learn really, really fast. Look at Ellison who bought an entire island.

Well, prior to that, let's just start with a couple of medieval castles in Europe that I have seen offered on the market. Rehabbing these cold castles is not cheap. Adding R-30 insulation all around, then heating and cooling to them will cost much moolah, and you may even end up employing the entire surrounding village. It costs money to be like a count or an earl, you know?

I have also read about a yacht with two helipads. Think about that a bit, and I saw that it made sense. When a fellow billionaire flies in per your dinner invitation, where does he land if your only helipad is occupied by your chopper already?

I don't think $90 million/yr is enough for the above lifestyle, really!
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:41 PM   #143
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I have also read about a yacht with two helipads. Think about that a bit, and I saw that it made sense. When a fellow billionaire flies in per your dinner invitation, where does he land if your only helipad is occupied by your chopper already?

I don't think $90 million/yr is enough for the above lifestyle, really!
Nah, you just push your chopper overboard it was last year's model anyway! besides, they are a dime a dozen http://www.globalplanesearch.com/helicopters/bell/
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:47 PM   #144
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Now you're talking.

Oh man! I imagine a billionaire, or rather his wife, would already spend much time to select the right interior decor for the custom-equipped chopper. Having to do that every year, gosh, that's a real chore.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #145
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Nah, you just push your chopper overboard it was last year's model anyway! besides, they are a dime a dozen Bell Aircraft for Sale - Used Helicopter Sales at GlobalPlaneSearch.com
I just thought of something. If you could not afford a yacht with front and back helipads, and but want to impress your visitor, make sure to wait at the last moment to push your chopper off while your friend was hovering waiting to land.

Then, find a way to hint to him that it shows how much you appreciate his friendship and company for dinner.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:33 PM   #146
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We like luxury travel; nice cruises, safaris in Africa, and time in Europe. While working, we try to take two three week vacations per year.

How we arrived at estimate:

Two months driving around North America = $20K
One month in Europe/Africa = $20K
Three months cruising = $50K

As I said, a wag; our cruising expense "per diem" is slightly higher now so we will probably substitute some cheaper cruises.

Marc
This year we spent 3 months driving around N. America, stayed in very nice cabins in Utah, Oregon, Wyoming, Yellowstone, Colorado plus a month in a 3-bed condo in Friday Harbor on San Juan Island. Total expenditure was ~$15k.

Last year we spent 7 months, mostly in the UK but with trips to Europe and total cost was ~$35k

So, I think your budget estimates for your planned trips are pretty good.

Next year we are planning (and have mostly booked) a 4 month trip consisting of a month in Ireland, 2 weeks in France, 10 day Scandinavian cruise and the rest in the UK.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:37 AM   #147
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OK, it may not be so easy for people like us. But I think we can learn really, really fast. Look at Ellison who bought an entire island.

Well, prior to that, let's just start with a couple of medieval castles in Europe that I have seen offered on the market. Rehabbing these cold castles is not cheap. Adding R-30 insulation all around, then heating and cooling to them will cost much moolah, and you may even end up employing the entire surrounding village. It costs money to be like a count or an earl, you know?


I have also read about a yacht with two helipads. Think about that a bit, and I saw that it made sense. When a fellow billionaire flies in per your dinner invitation, where does he land if your only helipad is occupied by your chopper already?

I don't think $90 million/yr is enough for the above lifestyle, really!
Don't forget to get an estimate on cleaning out the moat and stocking it with alligators.

As for the helicopters, what kind of castle only has one hellipad? The neighbors will accuse you of bringing down the property values.

I took a look on realtor.com and they don't have a check item for castles, moats or helipads. How is one to find the right property with tools like this?
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #148
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Nah, you just push your chopper overboard it was last year's model anyway!
It's been done before
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:24 PM   #149
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This year we spent 3 months driving around N. America, stayed in very nice cabins in Utah, Oregon, Wyoming, Yellowstone, Colorado plus a month in a 3-bed condo in Friday Harbor on San Juan Island. Total expenditure was ~$15k.
$5K/month in locations like the above is lower than I would have guessed.

A few years ago, I would have thought of following in your footsteps, selling everything and hitting the road. But I have realized that I am way too much of a homebody to travel like that. Even when RV'ing, which is a small home on wheels, we have not been away from home for more than about 6 weeks.

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Don't forget to get an estimate on cleaning out the moat and stocking it with alligators...
These European castles are in cold climate. I wonder if you would need heaters in the moat to keep your alligators comfortable. Then, you will find out that you need to upgrade the town electric line to run your moat heaters. Ka ching!

The dukes had it easier in the old days. They got cheap free labor from the peasants, and if they cut the laborers some slack so that the latter could have some time to till the land, grow and harvest some grain, they could even extract some taxes.

Nowadays, laborers want at least minimum pay, nice working conditions as mandated by OSHA-like laws. Not only that it costs much more, it even takes all the fun out of being a lord.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:36 PM   #150
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If you don't heat the moat in winter it will ice over and the peasants can cross over and get in your courtyard. Can't have that. They are so always begging for food and looking pitiful. Really a downer. What's the use of being a lord if you have to look at rabble in your courtyard?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:20 PM   #151
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$5K/month in locations like the above is lower than I would have guessed.

A few years ago, I would have thought of following in your footsteps, selling everything and hitting the road. But I have realized that I am way too much of a homebody to travel like that. Even when RV'ing, which is a small home on wheels, we have not been away from home for more than about 6 weeks.
Apart from Yellowstone all the places we stayed were rented through VRBO and were very reasonably priced. The most expensive, and the largest, was the condo in Friday Harbor on San Juan island and that was $2,500 for a month. The 1-bed cabins on the slopes of Mt Hood, and in Wilson, Wyoming were $495 / week. Wilson is right by Grand Tetons National Park and $80 got us an annual unlimited pass into all the National Parks, and a smaller sum got access to all the State parks in Washington (in total we had 6 weeks in Washington). We visited 9 National Parks.

We drive a Prius so the cost of gas was minimal compared to an RV. Gas was well over $5/gal on San Juan Island but in the month we were there we didn't need to fill up. Once you arrived by ferry, all other inter-island ferries on foot or with a bicycle are free. (we rented bikes twice to tour other islands, and on foot another time).

We've booked up the 2 cottages we'll staying in Ireland next May and they are costing 400 Euros/week (~$500) They are fairly remote so the cost will be much higher as we'll need to rent a car for the month.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:41 PM   #152
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Alan, thanks for the info. I have wanted to visit San Juan Islands, but despite being to the Seattle area numerous times have not had a chance. It was mostly due to our trips being impromptu, and I did not specifically have the islands as a destination. I am sure I will come that way again, however.

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If you don't heat the moat in winter it will ice over and the peasants can cross over and get in your courtyard. Can't have that.
They are so always begging for food and looking pitiful. Really a downer. What's the use of being a lord if you have to look at rabble in your courtyard?
No, the moat is to protect a lord from another king, not from his own subjects. Yes, the poor peasants might be an eyesore, but they would not dare bother you. Let me tell a real story.

There was a king in the Middle Ages who was bothered by the sight of the cripples, invalids, and beggars in his kingdom. So, he announced that he would host a dinner for them. The poor came to the city on the preset day, and were ushered into a large hall where a great feast awaited them. After they stuffed themselves, the king made an appearance and asked "Do you want to be without cares, lacking nothing in this world?". Of course his subjects answered positively.

The king then ordered the doors shut, and the building set on fire. No one escaped! He later explained that his action was to make sure that there were no more disabled people and weaklings in his kingdom.

So brutal, you say? Well, these victims were fortunate, because they could have faced a far worse fate than being burned to death. For the king was Vlad the Impaler, who invented dozen of ways to impale people, some allowing the victims to suffer for days before they died.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:15 PM   #153
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It's been done before
I'd forgotten that picture. Sad, sad memories...
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:24 PM   #154
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Alan, thanks for the info. I have wanted to visit San Juan Islands, but despite being to the Seattle area numerous times have not had a chance. It was mostly due to our trips being impromptu, and I did not specifically have the islands as a destination. I am sure I will come that way again, however.



No, the moat is to protect a lord from another king, not from his own subjects. Yes, the poor peasants might be an eyesore, but they would not dare bother you. Let me tell a real story.

There was a king in the Middle Ages who was bothered by the sight of the cripples, invalids, and beggars in his kingdom. So, he announced that he would host a dinner for them. The poor came to the city on the preset day, and were ushered into a large hall where a great feast awaited them. After they stuffed themselves, the king made an appearance and asked "Do you want to be without cares, lacking nothing in this world?". Of course his subjects answered positively.

The king then ordered the doors shut, and the building set on fire. No one escaped! He later explained that his action was to make sure that there were no more disabled people and weaklings in his kingdom.

So brutal, you say? Well, these victims were fortunate, because they could have faced a far worse fate than being burned to death. For the king was Vlad the Impaler, who invented dozen of ways to impale people, some allowing the victims to suffer for days before they died.
Interesting approach. I think I read someplace the Nazis had a similar plan.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:10 PM   #155
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I just thought of something. If you could not afford a yacht with front and back helipads, and but want to impress your visitor, make sure to wait at the last moment to push your chopper off while your friend was hovering waiting to land.

Then, find a way to hint to him that it shows how much you appreciate his friendship and company for dinner.
Most of the super rich w/mega yacht have a tender Yacht to hold all the play boats, submarines and helicopters so more room is available on the main yacht for bars, pools, etc.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:27 PM   #156
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Fun thread. Don't think it applies to me/us.
We've been where we wanted to go, and have seen what we wanted to see. Don't quite understand why almost every long term projection ignores Social Security, and don't expect to die with our capital intact.
Three days ago, we entered our 24th year of retirement, and are much closer to age 80, than to age 70.
FWIW... DW receives half of my SS, and together the gross is $25,000. (We took it at age 62.) We count this as income.
One of the most interesting things I find here, is the same thinking that I had some years ago... that retirement years will include a bucket list a mile long. Maybe our list was a little shorter than most, but we did pretty well, and feel no regrets. Except for a few guilt trips about not running five miles a day, health is reasonable, and despite the everlasting worries about dementia... mental attitude is pretty darned good.
We still have our place in a mfg home park in Florida, our camp on the lake, and our home in a retirement community in Illinois... all in low cost areas. With simple needs, and simple tastes, we are simply happy.
That said, money is not a big part of our lives. We have enough.

Now, an interesting thought that I don't see here on ER... Namely, the fallback position for later years of living in a managed retirement apartment, with fixed costs, and including all services... and safe. We've been to see enough of these (including the apartment house in our own community) to know that for older retirees, it's a great option. Many of these retirement complexes are quite elegant.

Full service, 2 persons, for about $32k. Two meals a day. 2BR, 2BA, small kitchen, living room, light housekeeping 1/wk, all utilities, including TV, nominal transportation to local stores, doctors, etc. Planned outings... theatre, gambling, restaurants. On-site rehab center, nursing home, assisted living, beauty shop, library, meeting rooms, weekly calendar of planned events and 24 hour emergency services. Now lest that sounds too much like a place to go to die, there are always party groups, for cruises, trips to Branson, Nashville, and trips to Europe, Alaska etc.

I bring this up, not as a goal for the 45 year olds who are getting ready for adventure, but as a thought for when one is planning for years in the future. While I can still handle a 30 mile bike ride, or a few hours of canoeing, it won't be for much longer. We'll be divesting ourselves of the extra properties in the next year or two.

The point I would make is that making a plan for the future doesn't necessarily mean that the early years of retirement expenses, should have to carry through to the later years. Consider the savings... car expenses, house maintenance, repairs, insurance, taxes, food, utilities, and the intangible savings from being beyond the "acquiring" years...household goods, tools, clothing etc.

Usually I get little nudges when I post stuff like this... like "sounds like you're getting ready to 'toe up' ". Not really... just coming from a different direction.
As was already said... Different strokes...
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:09 PM   #157
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Imoldernu, your insight is wonderful, and you and DW seem so .....together. Thank you!
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:38 AM   #158
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One of the most interesting things I find here, is the same thinking that I had some years ago... that retirement years will include a bucket list a mile long. Maybe our list was a little shorter than most, but we did pretty well, and feel no regrets.
I do not have a bucket list, and if it can be called one, it has only 1 or 2 lines. I have tried to be a bit more spontaneous, and to live in the moment. No, it does not mean to go full out and to exhaust oneself, but rather to be more whimsical.

I recently made a Hawaiian trip on a spur of the moment and only 3 weeks in advance when seeing something on this forum. My next item on the "bucket" list is something as simple as visiting a liquor store and shopping for a nice bottle of tequila to try to drink tequila neat, and even make margarita for the New Year family party I will be hosting.

Then, I will soon be surfing the Web again for locations for my next RV trip. Yes, just one thing at a time.

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The point I would make is that making a plan for the future doesn't necessarily mean that the early years of retirement expenses, should have to carry through to the later years. Consider the savings... car expenses, house maintenance, repairs, insurance, taxes, food, utilities, and the intangible savings from being beyond the "acquiring" years...household goods, tools, clothing etc.
I have always believed that my expenses will go down with the years, just like Bernicke has observed with his study of retirees' expenses. I have not read his actual work, but from the FIRECalc calculator saw that one's expenses go down starting right at an early age of 56, my current age. A person spending $90K at 56 will be spending only about $42K at 76, according to the model. And I am not even at the $90K level now.

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Usually I get little nudges when I post stuff like this... like "sounds like you're getting ready to 'toe up' ". Not really... just coming from a different direction.
As was already said... Different strokes...
I often feel that I am already slowing down at just 56 years of age.

But wait! I was born a geezer, and have always been mellow. Compared to other people, I never got "up to speed", let alone talk of slowing down.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:10 AM   #159
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Just eat at Commander's Palace (and the like) every night, you'll be well on your way to spending $90K...
I couldn't, they don't allow shorts and aloha shirts.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:13 AM   #160
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I do not have a bucket list, and if it can be called one, it has only 1 or 2 lines. I have tried to be a bit more spontaneous, and to live in the moment. No, it does not mean to go full out and to exhaust oneself, but rather to be more whimsical.

I recently made a Hawaiian trip on a spur of the moment and only 3 weeks in advance when seeing something on this forum. My next item on the "bucket" list is something as simple as visiting a liquor store and shopping for a nice bottle of tequila to try to drink tequila neat, and even make margarita for the New Year family party I will be hosting.

Then, I will soon be surfing the Web again for locations for my next RV trip. Yes, just one thing at a time.



I have always believed that my expenses will go down with the years, just like Bernicke has observed with his study of retirees' expenses. I have not read his actual work, but from the FIRECalc calculator saw that one's expenses go down starting right at an early age of 56, my current age. A person spending $90K at 56 will be spending only about $42K at 76, according to the model. And I am not even at the $90K level now.


I often feel that I am already slowing down at just 56 years of age.

But wait! I was born a geezer, and have always been mellow. Compared to other people, I never got "up to speed", let alone talk of slowing down.
Plus, since you never take your tongue out of your cheek, your food expenses are reasonable. Congrats though on having found a way to drink the best, while keeping that tongue firmly planted.

Ha
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