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View Poll Results: Excluding Soc Sec, what is/will be your PRIMARY retirement income approach?
SWR/Constant percentage approach 54 35.53%
Supplementing with part-time/sporadic work income as needed 4 2.63%
Norwegian widow, spend dividends & gains, leave principal untouched 14 9.21%
Time based segments, Buckets of Money, Grangaard, etc. 8 5.26%
Essential vs discretionary income, safe investments for essential 4 2.63%
Pension, annuity etc. 63 41.45%
Passive income, from spouse, family, business ownership, etc. 5 3.29%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2010, 07:54 PM   #21
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However, if I chose to have the cap gains also go towards my income I would still maintain the same number of shares in my Wellesley account.
True enough, but that same number of shares respresents a smaller % holding of Wellesley, and of the underlying earning assets in the fund. As long as the underlying is growing as fast as Wellesley is liquidating, the person who takes income and dividends as cash will not lose absolutely, but he will lose relative to the growth of the underlying.

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Old 12-05-2010, 08:02 PM   #22
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We will be mainly living on non-cola DB pension. We will supplement for extras with our after tax account. We also each have a Roth IRA and I have a 401K for long term possible self insured LTC and whatever unknowns may be out there. Undecided about when to take SS.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:21 PM   #23
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True enough, but that same number of shares respresents a smaller % holding of Wellesley, and of the underlying earning assets in the fund. As long as the underlying is growing as fast as Wellesley is liquidating, the person who takes income and dividends as cash will not lose absolutely, but he will lose relative to the growth of the underlying.

Ha
Just checking the facts, man

As I say, I have it set up for the cap gains to reinvest.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:50 PM   #24
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In 2 yrs, I'll start receiving a federal employee COLA'd pension (CSRS). At that time, I'll be able to tap into my 401k (TSP) penalty free if I want to, and might use it to pay cash for our retirement home. Wife will continue to work for 2-3 more years, then will join me in retirement with her 401k, no pension, which we probably won't touch & will keep it for big emergencies. In 2018, I'll begin drawing my military (reserves) COLA'd pension. We also each have Roth IRA's. Wife will get SS when she reaches age 62. I may get a very small SS, possibly just enough to pay for beer. Our game plan is to have no mortgage, and live happily ever after on my 2 pensions, with her 401k, the IRA's & her SS as back-ups. We should be ok.....hopefully.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:19 PM   #25
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This is amazing. In answer to the question,
Quote:
Excluding Soc Sec, what is/will be your PRIMARY retirement income approach?
so far, half of the members here are selecting "pension, annuity, etc."!

That is not the case for me, and I would not have guessed that this poll would turn out like this.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:47 PM   #26
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Right now mine is pension but this will likely change (% wise) as time goes on. With DW still working its a no brainier but when she decides to stop things immediately change into a different gear. Going by some health issues (hers) this may happen sooner than I thought or planned, sorry to think or say.
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Old 12-06-2010, 04:45 AM   #27
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Most of the methods listed are not mutually exclusive.

My approach will be a blend of several of the general methods listed in the poll.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:25 AM   #28
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By "SWR/Constant percentage approach" do you mean x% corrected for inflation annually, or do you mean x% of portfolio value each year, disregarding inflation?
either...

And for others, the Norwegian widow choice could mean dividends only, gains only or any combination. It would be impossible to name every possible approach, the intent was to put answers into general bins so to speak.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:27 AM   #29
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This is amazing. In answer to the question,
so far, half of the members here are selecting "pension, annuity, etc."!

That is not the case for me, and I would not have guessed that this poll would turn out like this.
I'm not surprised by that aspect, there was a FIRE vs SIRE poll awhile ago and SIRE was about 2/3rds of this audience. Makes sense in that pension/annuity folks would mostly have Soc Sec too, hence 2/3rds (vs half in this poll).

Another topic, but that's why it concerns me when mostly FIRE folks (like me) post questions and then read answers from others who may be mostly SIRE folks. Ideally, SIRE or FIRE would be in everyone's sig, but I don't really expect to see that happen.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:38 AM   #30
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I went with Norwegian widow, because I intend to have enough income from that to cover my planned <3% SWR. However, I intend to re-balance and to keep to the WR plus or minus 50bps, even when stock prices might be down and therefore yield percentages up, or vice versa. At a 3% WR, that allows a 16.7% window up or down, which means I don't have to cut the budget unless the portfolio drops by 16.7%. Even then, so long as my dividend stocks and munis keep paying out, it just means I cut the budget and reinvest more of the dividends.

Alas, this is the plan, we'll see what reality brings in a couple of years.

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Old 12-06-2010, 07:15 AM   #31
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I'm not surprised by that aspect, there was a FIRE vs SIRE poll awhile ago and SIRE was about 2/3rds of this audience.
What is SIRE? Couldn't find it in the jargon file.
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:19 AM   #32
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What is SIRE?
Secure Income, Retired Early
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:50 AM   #33
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Quote:
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By "SWR/Constant percentage approach" do you mean x% corrected for inflation annually, or do you mean x% of portfolio value each year, disregarding inflation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
either...

And for others, the Norwegian widow choice could mean dividends only, gains only or any combination. It would be impossible to name every possible approach, the intent was to put answers into general bins so to speak.
I had the same concern as RiT but selected the SWR item as it seems closest to what we do. Hard choice between pension and SWR since they are almost the same amount.
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Old 12-06-2010, 12:30 PM   #34
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What is SIRE? Couldn't find it in the jargon file.
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Secure Income, Retired Early
I've added it to the acronyms list.

I'm not surprised at the poll results either given the discussions in recent years.
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Old 12-06-2010, 12:39 PM   #35
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I responded incorrectly with SWR, but should have said Pensions, annuity, etc.

My DH and I retired in the last couple of months at 56 and 57. We are living on my partial non-cola annuity and withdrawals from my 401K. Our lump sum pensions and DH's 401K rolled to IRA. We will continue to supplement pension with investment withdrawals until we start SS at 66. Our withdrawal amounts at that point will be very small. We are fortunate to both have paid medical insurance from our former company.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:11 PM   #36
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I'm not surprised at the poll results either given the discussions in recent years.
Based strictly on my recall (always subject to question! ) there has definitly been a shift from discussions involving early retirement based on FIRE portfolios towards early retirement based on pensions, especially gov't pensions. There has also been a shift from discussion involving how to safely spend more of your portfolio while adding minimal risk of running out of money towards towards leaving a mountain of money behind is fine as long as it meant you had absolute security of not running out of money. Goes along with economy I guess.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:27 PM   #37
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Based strictly on my recall (always subject to question! ) there has definitly been a shift from discussions involving early retirement based on FIRE portfolios towards early retirement based on pensions, especially gov't pensions. There has also been a shift from discussion involving how to safely spend more of your portfolio while adding minimal risk of running out of money towards towards leaving a mountain of money behind is fine as long as it meant you had absolute security of not running out of money. Goes along with economy I guess.
I think this is what I was thinking of - Just over a year ago Midpack did a poll asking how many would have more than 50% of the retirement income from pensions / annuities (SIRE).

The result then had 37% saying they would be SIRE'd. So far this poll has it at 42%.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:35 PM   #38
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Based strictly on my recall (always subject to question! ) there has definitly been a shift from discussions involving early retirement based on FIRE portfolios towards early retirement based on pensions, especially gov't pensions. There has also been a shift from discussion involving how to safely spend more of your portfolio while adding minimal risk of running out of money towards towards leaving a mountain of money behind is fine as long as it meant you had absolute security of not running out of money. Goes along with economy I guess.
Another part of it may be that SPIAs are offering more for the money than they were 10 years ago. Annuitizing a portion of ER income (with, for example, a pension) has always been a good idea but it wasn't always worth the expense.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:46 PM   #39
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One of the things folks should consider when deciding whether they are FIRE or SIRE is how their entire retirement will be funded. For example, you retire at 55 and decide to delay a pension until 65 because the formula favors those who delay. For 10 years you live off portfolio withdrawals and at 65 start a generous, COLA'd pension which covers all your expenses the rest of your life. I'd say that is a SIRE situation despite the fact that you could honestly say anytime during your first 10 years that you're living strictly off of portfolio withdrawals. You have to look at the whole picture.

I also remind everyone that talking about withdrawal rates without a mention of time period is silly. I guess we all pretty much assume 30 yrs when the time period isn't mentioned. Still, when folks talk about taking a large initial WR at the beginning followed by lower rates when SS and/or pensions start, it should be no surprise that large WR's work for short periods and should not be compared to 30 year periods.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:26 PM   #40
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I chose the SWR option only because that d*mn Norwegian Widow didn't do a real good job of watching out for those of us fools who thought that bank stocks might carry us AND because your inquiry indicated what source IS/WILL as I have been fortunate enough to have avoided any withdrawals thus far... choosing to supplement my needs with the wonders of eBay
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