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View Poll Results: Did the strings of Wall Street Scandals affect your willingness to invest?
I lost all faith in those crooks, and will cut back on investing in those vehicles. 1 2.70%
Those underhanded activities have been there since the beginning. It makes no difference in my own investment style and plans. 36 97.30%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-02-2013, 09:53 AM   #21
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A rant disguised as a poll. You can point to crooks in any field/sector/industry/avocation, including whatever field the OP was/is part of...caveat emptor.
I am awed by your ability to mind-read and divined the purpose of my poll.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #22
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What makes the least sense to me is the idea that assuming they do what they're accused up (and I'm not disputing that) that that somehow leads to the conclusion that one would be better off not investing. If you live in the Republica of Fardonia, and thugs extract protection money from people who sell their wares at the market, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're better off selling your wares from your home. The advantage of the market may be superior enough to overcome the cost of corruption.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:02 AM   #23
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A rant disguised as a poll. ....
Yes, I'm confused as to the OP's intent. Is he agreeing with the yahoo posters, or just pointing out that this particular subset of the population (and who knows what segment these yahoo posters represent?) thinks in this way? Is it significant? I can find all sorts of various comments on any subject.


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ERD50
At the risk of over-simplification, the sentiment, mistrust, misjudgement and financial naivety of some of those general public landed them in a situation of facing the future and retirement with no invested assets and little savings.
Well, if someone doesn't bother to educate themselves, and then applies unfounded, emotional, knee-jerk reactions to their investments (or lack of them, out of 'fear'?), then what should we expect?

Is there some Constitutional right to having a big savings account? I don't think so. It's something that one has to work for (barring lottery, inheritance, etc). In order to have the account I have today, I had to face some risks. I didn't sell out at the lows, I didn't jump in at the highs. I had to LBYM and pump money into my accounts.

The general public has lots of very simple options, if they took 30 minutes to educate themselves. Put away some percentage of your salary into a target retirement fund. Ignore it. The more they can put in the better. They'll be far better off if they do that, and it isn't rocket science.

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Old 08-02-2013, 10:09 AM   #24
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"that this particular subset of the population (and who knows what segment these yahoo posters represent?) thinks in this way? Is it significant? I can find all sorts of various comments on any subject."

While those reactions may not be wise or correct, if they are voiced by enough people, it can become a popular opinion. Elections are won by a politician who wins the most number of votes.

read my comment (#12), after correcting my typos:
"when the general public "over-react", that may put pressure on politicians to bring in more and more regulations, some may be good, but some may be counter-productive."
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:20 AM   #25
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ERD50
read my comment (#12), after correcting typos:
"when the general public "over-react", that may put pressure on politicians to bring in more and more regulations, some may be good, but some may be counter-productive."
OK, so is that what you want to discuss? It looks like I'm not the only one who is confused about what the intent of this thread is.

But to that point, I totally agree that some vocal group can put pressure on politicians to enact laws/regs that are counterproductive. It happens all the time, and I could go on and on, but it wouldn't be long before I was banned.

So do you have some specific concerns about specific laws/regs that are being proposed that could affect us FIRE or FIRE hopefuls? If not, it does kinda come across as a rant, intentional or not.

-ERD50
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #26
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Well, Elizabeth Warren is proposing some pretty restrictive legislation in the financial and banking industries. She is also pushing to break up the banks.

And Elliot Spitzer is promising that he will be an "activist" comptroller if elected.

I am not asking you to read all my comments in this thread, but my intent was rather obvious. I am struck by many pretty harsh and anti-business comments in forums frequented by "general public" in reaction to news, some sensationalized, about the various scandals. And politicians blow in the direction of the wind.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #27
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I thought the OP question was straight forward. Do past examples of corruption have an impact on your willingness to invest in stocks? My answer is yes. I own quite a bit but certainly wouldn't put more than 25% of my NW in them. The incompetence of the investment banks in the financial crisis was just too remarkable and unpredictable.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:40 AM   #28
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I am awed by your ability to mind-read and divined the purpose of my poll.
It wasn't difficult since your poll precluded any remotely positive choice, why bother? You don't trust Wall St, OK - we get that. There are scandals in every field. Carry on...
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:48 AM   #29
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It wasn't difficult since your poll precluded any remotely positive choice, why bother? You don't trust Wall St, OK - we get that. There are scandals in every field. Carry on...
Read my comments in the thread before you make up your facetious and fallacious conclusion. Where in my comments did you deduce hostility or mistrust of Wall Street? And in all likelihood, I am more heavily invested in the market than you.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:50 AM   #30
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There are those that feel that corruption is nonexistent. If so, skip the poll and move on.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:54 AM   #31
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ERD50

Well, Elizabeth Warren is proposing some pretty restrictive legislation in the financial and banking industries. She is also pushing to break up the banks.

And Elliot Spitzer is promising that he will be an "activist" comptroller if elected.

I am not asking you to read all my comments in this thread, but my intent was rather obvious. I am struck by many pretty harsh and anti-business comments in forums frequented by "general public" in reaction to news, some sensationalized, about the various scandals. And politicians blow in the direction of the wind.
OK, you are right, but I don't know that this is something new at all. A few years back, IL Senator Dick Durbin sponsored a bill, and it passed, and it fought to lower the fees that merchants are charged to process debit cards. He actually made the connection that these fees are passed on to the consumer (I guess corporate taxes are somehow magically different?). Later, he was all up in arms, because the debit card companies just raised their fees elsewhere (IIRC, a $5 monthly account fee). What do you expect? Are they just going to voluntarily lower their profits? Was any one 'helped' by making these companies jump through hoops, only to shift a fee from one place to another? That cost the company time/money, and now they need to recoup that - from their customers. The same ones the politicians were supposedly trying to help!

I could go on, but I suspect I'm already on thin ice here, heading towards porky.

But to your point - sure, there will be some counter-productive regs passed that hurt people like me. I really doubt that is going to make me pull out of the market. How bad will it be, and what are the alternatives is what I need to consider. We have to play the cards we are dealt.

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Old 08-02-2013, 11:00 AM   #32
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It wasn't difficult since your poll precluded any remotely positive choice, why bother? You don't trust Wall St, OK - we get that. There are scandals in every field. Carry on...
Read my comments in the thread before you make up your facetious and fallacious conclusion. Where in my comments did you deduce hostility or mistrust of Wall Street? And in all likelihood, I am more heavily invested in the market than you.
I have to agree with Midpack here. It may not have been intentional on your part, but the poll does have only negatively worded choices. That is not 'facetious and fallacious', it is a fact.

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Old 08-02-2013, 11:18 AM   #33
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What positive words would you use to describe insider tradings, or the Goldman Sachs examples I cited?

As Gatordoc (and you) had pointed out, corruptions do exist in the financial industry, but while the news about those are often sensationalized, they do not pose a large, irreparable or long lasting effect in markets of the size. I am thinking about the analogy of the act of dropping a boulder in Lake Michigan.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:21 AM   #34
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I am more concerned about Affinity Fraud.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #35
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I am more concerned about Affinity Fraud.
Your concern for practices that take advantage of the elderly may be appropriate for a forum catered to the retirement community (early or not).

One example I am thinking of is the heavily advertized "reverse mortgage", even though most here is not likely fall for such a bad idea.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #36
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What positive words would you use to describe insider tradings, or the Goldman Sachs examples I cited? ...
I wouldn't. But that doesn't mean everything is negative. Like my earlier post,

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I think that today we have more transparency than ever before. Lower fees, better reporting, instant pricing available. What 'underhanded activities'? If those are 'underhanded activities', they better keep working at it - they aren't very good if they are giving people more than double their money in ten years. They were supposed to keep it all for themselves! Back to the drawing board!
So a balanced poll would have included something to the effect - "Despite the problems, I think the market is overall a better, safer, more efficient place to invest than ever before".

But you didn't include anything like that. Right?

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Old 08-02-2013, 11:49 AM   #37
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So a balanced poll would have included something to the effect - "Despite the problems, I think the market is overall a better, safer, more efficient place to invest than ever before".

But you didn't include anything like that. Right?

-ERD50
That was more or less what second option is, substituting your less specific " problems" for "underhanded activities".

I did not include a more enthusiastic take of Wall Street like you do, maybe I should have, to see how many choose that. But I am not Gallup, and at the time I was attempting to create this. my first poll, I was more preoccupied with trying correctly accomplishing that. I actually failed to do that, and W2R was the one who put this together in a poll format,
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:35 PM   #38
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Read my comments in the thread before you make up your facetious and fallacious conclusion. Where in my comments did you deduce hostility or mistrust of Wall Street? And in all likelihood, I am more heavily invested in the market than you.
Lighten up. We have different POVs, no need to get all worked up...if you don't see any bias to your poll, that's fine. I'm done so you're welcome to the last word if it helps...
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #39
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Well, there's investing, and there's "playing the market".

As an aside, I often read the comments after a story for the "humor", though it's scary that there are so many uninformed opinions out there...
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:35 PM   #40
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I think the Yahoo poster represent a majority of Americans. Hell my own sister just told me last week that she thinks Wall St is just a casino, this despite her being married for 30+ years to a very savvy investor, who has done quite well for them.

I just rolled my eyes and agreed with her husband.
Do you mean that you agreed with your sister?
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