Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: Did the strings of Wall Street Scandals affect your willingness to invest?
I lost all faith in those crooks, and will cut back on investing in those vehicles. 1 2.70%
Those underhanded activities have been there since the beginning. It makes no difference in my own investment style and plans. 36 97.30%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Poll:Wall Street Scandals and investing
Old 08-01-2013, 07:22 PM   #1
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 572
Poll:Wall Street Scandals and investing

Did the strings of Wall Street Scandals: e.g. SAC insider trading, Goldman Sachs touting mortgage backed securities to investors while actively shorting them in the company's private accounts, affect your willingness to invest in stocks, bonds and other financial vehicles?

1. I lost all faith in those crooks, and will cut back on investing in those vehicles.

OR

2. Those underhanded activities have been there since the beginning. It makes no difference in my own investment style and plans.

+++ I tried to put this in as a poll. I thought I followed the instruction, but in my clumsy way, mess it up+++
__________________

__________________
bondi688 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-01-2013, 07:57 PM   #2
Dryer sheet aficionado
LazyErik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 49
I think my opinion is more with the second option. Rich "in the know" cheaters will always cheat. It's been that way since the beginning. I feel like the individual investor can only index and pick a few stocks to hold long term (if this is their hobby & willing to take the risk.)
JMHO, I have no problem being proved wrong.
__________________

__________________
LazyErik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 07:58 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondi688 View Post
Did the strings of Wall Street Scandals: e.g. SAC insider trading, Goldman Sachs touting mortgage backed securities to investors while actively shorting them in the company's private accounts, affect your willingness to invest in stocks, bonds and other financial vehicles?
No.

Quote:
1. I lost all faith in those crooks, and will cut back on investing in those vehicles.
I don't have any faith in them at any time. I can't lose something I never had.


Quote:
2. Those underhanded activities have been there since the beginning. It makes no difference in my own investment style and plans.
So what are you doing?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:08 PM   #4
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 572
I asked the question after reading comments from Posters in sites like Yahoo about today's news Tourre was found liable for fraud. There, the sentiment is overwhelming anti-Wall Street, anti-Bank, and that investment industry is a shell game.
__________________
bondi688 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:20 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jollystomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,364
I'm more towards option 2, but due to those scandals I'm less likely to invest in individual stocks/bonds and continue to use mutual funds and ETFs (and primarily of the index variety).

I own about 10 individual stocks but only at the "gambling money" level. My view is it is tougher for those scandals to impact mutual funds, particularly fund companies with solid reputations.

The sayings "never invest in something you don't understand" and "if someone promises you a great return be wary" were never more true.
__________________
Current target FIRE date: Under negotiation, can happen anytime.
jollystomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:20 PM   #6
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondi688 View Post
+++ I tried to put this in as a poll. I thought I followed the instruction, but in my clumsy way, mess it up+++
I added a poll, and hope it is what you wanted. If not, any mod/admin can change or delete it.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 572
Thanks. W2R. I was trying to gauge whether the people who frequent this forum has a different reaction to all the scandals when compared to the general public who post in sites like Yahoo.
__________________
bondi688 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:39 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 2,726
I guess the real issue is the time frame, if you follow Boogle, a lot of the schemes and shenanigans cancel out with the passage of time. (Of course Boogle would also say that going with CDOs and the like was asking to be taken to the cleaners). For example I think that HFT hurts someone with a few months time horizion, but if you go to years, then the fluctuations even out. Plus what other game is there in town to play?
__________________
meierlde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:40 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondi688 View Post
I asked the question after reading comments from Posters in sites like Yahoo about today's news Tourre was found liable for fraud. There, the sentiment is overwhelming anti-Wall Street, anti-Bank, and that investment industry is a shell game.
O...........Kay.

Here's a link to a chart of a Total Stock Market Index fund, and there are many like this.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/Fun...FundIntExt=INT

If you invested money in this ten years ago, it would have more than doubled. That is after all expenses, fees, etc. But you may have taxes due if you sell. It is available to anyone with the $3,000 to start. Some similar funds have lower minimums.

So where is the fraud, where is the shell game? Did you set them straight? Have those posters to Yahoo found a good alternative to investing in businesses? Do they have any real experience with investing?

Stay away from the Bernie Madoff 'too good to be true' stories, and stick with mainstream index/ETF products, or a diversified portfolio of quality stocks, and you will likely do well.

So what do you think about all this? How do you invest?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:41 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondi688 View Post
Thanks. W2R. I was trying to gauge whether the people who frequent this forum has a different reaction to all the scandals when compared to the general public who post in sites like Yahoo.
Yes.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:47 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
OK, I see the poll is up now. I won't choose either answer.

I think that today we have more transparency than ever before. Lower fees, better reporting, instant pricing available. What 'underhanded activities'? If those are 'underhanded activities', they better keep working at it - they aren't very good if they are giving people more than double their money in ten years. They were supposed to keep it all for themselves! Back to the drawing board!

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 10:55 PM   #12
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 572
ERD50

An example of underhanded activities is when Goldman Sachs touted and sold mortgage backed securities to its clients in 2007-8, at the same time the company actively but secretly shorted those securities with its own private funds. Another example was with crude oil in 2008: while publicly, GS's analysts were predicting oil will go to $200 a barrel on TV and in research report, and the company was shorting oil at that time.

I think insiders gaming the system had been there since the beginning when commercial activities began, but their crooked dealings represents a very small proportion of the market. And if we invest in mutual funds or indexes, like meirilde said, over time those dirty deeds would have little effects.

The follow up question is: when the general public "over-react", that put pressure on politicians to bring in more and more regulations, some may be good, but some amay be counter-productive.
__________________
bondi688 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 11:10 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondi688 View Post
ERD50

An example of underhanded activities is when Goldman Sachs touted and sold mortgage backed securities to its clients in 2007-8, at the same time the company actively but secretly shorted those securities with its own private funds. ...
How does that affect the average small investor? Yes, that was a part of what rattled the markets at that time, but real investors look long-term, and even ten years is not very long, and a simple investment in an index fund has more than doubled, even with the G-S fiasco.

So let them stay out the market and miss these 10 year doublings. Then they'll complain that everyone else got rich and it isn't fair that they didn't, it was all rigged, the sun got in their eyes, etc. and we should share with them.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 11:16 PM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 572
ERD50
Did you read the second paragraph of my comment (#12)? Was I not saying what you just said?
__________________
bondi688 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondi688 View Post
ERD50
Did you read the second paragraph of my comment (#12)? Was I not saying what you just said?
Yes, pretty much, but what are those Yahoo posters thinking?


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2013, 11:36 PM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 572
ERD50
At the risk of over-simplification, the sentiment, mistrust, misjudgement and financial naivety of some of those general public landed them in a situation of facing the future and retirement with no invested assets and little savings.
__________________
bondi688 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 05:24 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,451
I think the Yahoo poster represent a majority of Americans. Hell my own sister just told me last week that she thinks Wall St is just a casino, this despite her being married for 30+ years to a very savvy investor, who has done quite well for them.

I just rolled my eyes and agreed with her husband.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 06:43 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,437
It might be rigged but it's the only game in town. Keep it simple with low ER Index funds and a little faith in the system.
__________________
Retired in 2016. Living off dividends / interest and a mini pension. Freedom.
foxfirev5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 08:07 AM   #19
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
OK, I see the poll is up now. I won't choose either answer.

I think that today we have more transparency than ever before. Lower fees, better reporting, instant pricing available. What 'underhanded activities'? If those are 'underhanded activities', they better keep working at it - they aren't very good if they are giving people more than double their money in ten years. They were supposed to keep it all for themselves! Back to the drawing board!

-ERD50
+1
I think there are fewer shenanigans going on with Wall Street than in the old days. But, their impact is magnified because we hear every detail of every news item instantly these days, and more people are invested in the stock market than a generation or two ago.
__________________
Which Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 09:09 AM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,983
A rant disguised as a poll. You can point to crooks in any field/sector/industry/avocation, including whatever field the OP was/is part of...caveat emptor.
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:05 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.