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View Poll Results: What is Annual Amount of Your Cash Investment Earnings
<$15,000 42 31.11%
<$30,000 31 22.96%
<$45,000 21 15.56%
<$60,000 12 8.89%
<$75,000 5 3.70%
<$90,000 5 3.70%
<$105,000 7 5.19%
<$175,000 7 5.19%
<$250,000 3 2.22%
>$250,000 2 1.48%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-21-2012, 02:38 PM   #41
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Technically, income <15000 is also <250000.
Read from the top down and use the first one that is true.
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by haha View Post
Because they are completely different questions, and in this poll I happened to be more interested in cash income. I am not saying that cash income is more important than total return, just different.

Ha
Fair enough , not trying to be provocative.

Most of our money is in tax deferred accounts so I just tend to think about the safety of any income stream as the tax consequences are the same for us, i.e. Treasury bonds held to maturity are much different then bank stocks with high dividends or high yield (junk) corporates. So I guess the yield plus safety might be a figure of merit. Then there is real yield (inflation protection). So we might say real yield plus safety is the figure of merit. Maybe there are even more dimensions too.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:17 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by FIREd View Post
It's interesting to see that many people don't track their dividend and interest income. I am quite obsessed with tracking that kind of data. I have the spreadsheets to prove it.
I'm also among the ranks of the spreadsheet-obsessed.

My main sheet has all of my positions listed, with 5 main groups: General Equity, Conservative Income (REIT/Utilities), Int'l, Natural Resources, and Fixed Income. I simply download .csv files from Yahoo each week and copy and paste the price columns into my spreadsheet categories to see the current values each week, and then record the NAV for each account to track its fluctuation.

Of course, one of the more critical elements of my spreadsheet is to list the dividend in one of the columns, and compute the yields off of my basis and current price. I then have a total income for each account (based on dividends, not cap gains) to see what my 'recurring' annual income is, and also track that number (I look at each holding twice a year to update the current annualized dividend, and note with different colors if it's increasing or decreasing, along with the previous dividend, so I can track the growth/decline of each holding's dividend at a glance).
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:24 PM   #44
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I take them in cash to help defray estimated tax payments!

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I like the idea of not including capital gains, because I choose to reinvest them.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:27 PM   #45
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I take them in cash to help defray estimated tax payments!
I take them in cash too, but the cash never leaves Vanguard. I use the cash to rebalance (not spend). So, to be clearer, they are reinvested in my portfolio, not that particular fund.

I pay my estimated taxes from my dividends (which I transfer from Vanguard to my bricks'n'mortar bank once a year during the first week in January, for spending during the following year).
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:55 PM   #46
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I apologize, I read the poll too fast. Is there any way I can change my answer to the poll please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan

From his first post, Ha wanted to include CD's in this survey.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:09 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds

I'm also among the ranks of the spreadsheet-obsessed.

My main sheet has all of my positions listed, with 5 main groups: General Equity, Conservative Income (REIT/Utilities), Int'l, Natural Resources, and Fixed Income. I simply download .csv files from Yahoo each week and copy and paste the price columns into my spreadsheet categories to see the current values each week, and then record the NAV for each account to track its fluctuation.

Of course, one of the more critical elements of my spreadsheet is to list the dividend in one of the columns, and compute the yields off of my basis and current price. I then have a total income for each account (based on dividends, not cap gains) to see what my 'recurring' annual income is, and also track that number (I look at each holding twice a year to update the current annualized dividend, and note with different colors if it's increasing or decreasing, along with the previous dividend, so I can track the growth/decline of each holding's dividend at a glance).
I do a manual monthly spreadsheet to track my assets in CDs, mutual funds, IBonds, HSA and savings. This amount is relatively small and will never be spent as I live comfortably on my pension. If I had to plan my retirement in the manner that most now do (no pension), I believe I would be as diligent as you. However my problem would be after 20-30 years of tracking, nurturing, and watching it grow, I don't think I could stand to spend it down. Shifting to spending after decades of saving would kill me. Spending a pension is easy. Although I contributed for years, the money was gone from my check monthly and I never viewed it as my money after it was withheld.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:32 PM   #48
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I agree with your belief. One caveat is how much you have to stretch to generate that income. I could generate more income by replacing my investment-grade bonds with junk bonds for example. I could also generate more income by investing in Frontier Communications instead of AT&T. In both cases my income would be higher, but would it be equally "robust" as you put it?
I am thinking this way also. I'm kinda scratching my head to understand where haha is going with this (maybe nowhere, which is fine), or what he hopes to get out of it.

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I like the idea of not including capital gains, because I choose to reinvest them.

Thanks for the poll - - I thought it was fun.
From the OP, I don't think he cares where it goes, reinvested, spent, moved to cash - only the source.

-ERD50
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:41 PM   #49
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It's interesting to see that many people don't track their dividend and interest income. I am quite obsessed with tracking that kind of data. I have the spreadsheets to prove it.
I just started tracking the dividends on all my holdings in 2011.

Around $17000 on a ~100% stock portfolio. 2.x% yield. Still a few years from being FI.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:06 PM   #50
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If one plugs in their portfolio into something like a Morningstar Portfolio X-ray, then it will give the "yield" on the portfolio which includes all the annual stock and bond dividends. I think most portfolios of equities and bonds will have a yield of 2% to 4%, so on a million dollars that's $20K to $40K.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:10 PM   #51
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I apologize, I read the poll too fast. Is there any way I can change my answer to the poll please?
I'm afraid I don't believe canceling your vote to allow you to vote again is possible. It is certainly not within my powers as a Moderator as this is an anonymous poll.
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:26 AM   #52
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I am at the < 30K range by design. That cover my expenses without touching principal by a good bit. Also stays in the minimum tax bracket and should maximize AHA rebates if it survives.

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Why separate out "income" from total return? I'm really curious to see the answer.
Because I live off dividends/interest. I can't do that with total return without selling something. I created a report in quicken that tracks dividends/interest vs spending to track how budget works.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #53
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I am at the < 30K range by design. That cover my expenses without touching principal by a good bit. Also stays in the minimum tax bracket and should maximize AHA rebates if it survives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal
Why separate out "income" from total return? I'm really curious to see the answer.
Because I live off dividends/interest. I can't do that with total return without selling something. I created a report in quicken that tracks dividends/interest vs spending to track how budget works.
Thanks, sometimes I forget that we haven't all selected the same way to optimize our situations.

Our situation is optimized through having everything in retirement accounts. Part of this was by design, part by having some of the taxable eaten up faster due to the 2008 melt down. So I deal with the tax situation in quite a different way, but still have to consider taxes in our taking of income.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:01 PM   #54
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Mine is deliberately low. I am accumulating and don't want the taxable income.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:37 PM   #55
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It's interesting to see that many people don't track their dividend and interest income. I am quite obsessed with tracking that kind of data. I have the spreadsheets to prove it.
+1
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:29 PM   #56
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I am thinking this way also. I'm kinda scratching my head to understand where haha is going with this (maybe nowhere, which is fine), or what he hopes to get out of it.
The answer to "What is Life?"

Ha
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:26 PM   #57
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The answer to "What is Life?"

Ha
Yes, that too. But we can always assume '42' as the answer.

You are a thoughtful and pragmatic guy, so if you were wondering just how much people are counting on dividends vs cap gains for their total return, I would think % rather than absolutes would matter. I'm having trouble with the thought process behind the $ request (maybe linking it to to some multiple of poverty levels? or median income?).

I guess your curiosity makes me curious. No big deal, just curious.

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Old 09-23-2012, 08:16 AM   #58
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I am at the < 30K range by design. That cover my expenses without touching principal by a good bit. Also stays in the minimum tax bracket and should maximize AHA rebates if it survives.



Because I live off dividends/interest. I can't do that with total return without selling something. I created a report in quicken that tracks dividends/interest vs spending to track how budget works.

except for a small commision there really isnt much difference between the company having a distribution and the exchange computors adjusting the price downward to reflect that distribution or you selling an equal dollar value of shares of a non dividend payer.

it all works out to the same thing right after the distribution and where market action takes either case is a seperate issue.

a stock dividend is no different than a mutual fund dividend. its just distributing the gains that already happened leading up from the last distribution.

exchange rules have the share price adjusted downward in either case.

the dividend sees a price reduction and a non dividend payor would see a share reduction of equal value if you did it on your own instead.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:29 AM   #59
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except for a small commision there really isnt much difference between the company having a distribution and the exchange computors adjusting the price downward to reflect that distribution or you selling an equal dollar value of shares of a non dividend payer.

it all works out to the same thing right after the distribution and where market action takes either case is a seperate issue.

a stock dividend is no different than a mutual fund dividend. its just distributing the gains that already happened leading up from the last distribution.

exchange rules have the share price adjusted downward in either case.

the dividend sees a price reduction and a non dividend payor would see a share reduction of equal value if you did it on your own instead.
There you go again. There are no exchange rules that require a downward adjustment of share price when a dividend is paid. The share price is a result of market activity, not a computation. Any decrease in share price when a dividend is paid happens because of economics, not any regulatory requirement.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:33 AM   #60
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wrong my friend , there certainly is

i suggest you read NYSE rule 118 and AMEX Rule 132.

they both dictate that, on ex-cash dividend days, open limit orders to buy stocks are reduced by the cash dividend amount at the open..


no different than funds go through.
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