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Old 02-07-2008, 09:55 PM   #161
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OK, excluding kids, interest expense, and taxes, here are my expenses for the last six months ending today:

Food 1,512.96
Utilities 957.38
Medical 948.17
Insurance 739.42
Auto 619.67
Recreation 595.07
Divorce 378
Christmas 367.1
House 272.61
Charity 70
MBA 61.47
Pets 59.03
Bank Charge 49.03
Clothing 46.5
Cash 18.48

which totals just under $6700, for an annual run rate of $13400. Add property taxes of $1100 back in, and you get to $14500.

Of the above categories, Recreation, Divorce, MBA, and Pets are either discretionary or NRE's. Those are at a run rate of $2200 per year, so that brings the total back to $12300 for my "floor".

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Old 02-07-2008, 11:10 PM   #162
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We can make it on $40,000 but I hope to have an income $44,000 in 3.5 years when my husband turns 55. His pension plus 457k plan plus investment income will sustain us for two years, when my pension (substantial) kicks in.

Two adults, one kid still in high school, the other kid out of college.
Fully paid medical in retirement, thank god
Fully paid off house, small home equity loan, no other debt.

We are frugal, we can and have lived on much, much less. But I worked hard in order to be comfortable. I don't think $44,000 is luxurious by any means.
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:56 AM   #163
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We live very comfortably in a high expense area on...

1) $24,000 (no mortgage, or rent)
2) 2 people
3) Hawaii
4) Retired

We live simply, which isn't a sacrifice for us. We have everything we need and since our wants are simple, we have everything we want, as well.
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:13 AM   #164
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I
This thread I believe contains wildly optimistic guesses.


Ha
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I think it is possible with the caveats:

1. It depends on how you count.

It does not include replacement costs

2Cor521
I agree HaHa. A good example above. 2Cor521 relies on a paid for house and a paid for car (I assume $1200/year covers gas/maint - not payments) to hit that $14,500 number. But he will need a new water heater, a new car, a new roof, etc. Amortize those costs over time and it will add up.

I also suspect that a budget focused on the items that he lists may see much more inflation than a more diversified budget. Medical, food, property taxes? Just a guess.

Even a $20,000 car every 12 years is $1666/year - that adds over 10% to his 'budget'. Just one item.

IMO, if you don't account for replacement costs, you don't really have a 'budget', you have a fantasy.

-ERD50
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:23 AM   #165
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What is the tax appraisal of your house ?

My house is appraised for $150,000.
Property taxes are $3800.
Tax appraisal value is $178,000.

So that kinda trumps TX. After all, I believe 2.5% is lower than 4% (or 3.1% if you use the lower amount of $5,600 ... but that rebate isn't guaranteed every year).
And I live in a "cheap" tax area of NJ. Folks up near where I work, are tax appraised at $220k, but their taxes are $11k. (5%)

And we now have 7% sales tax (just went up last year), and 6% income tax.
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:47 AM   #166
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I keep revising my numbers, but here are the latest.

Bare bones and staying where I am with a paid off house and no other debt.

$31,000 would be tight and no fun. $12,000 of this is health insurance and dental.

Cutting back budget, but still having some fun, playing public golf, cheap vacations, ect.

$45,000

Current budget is $65,000. And we still have to watch our money. This is for two of us and we have no debts.

The above are all after tax.

I'm sure if I had to we would find a way to get buy on less, but I don't feel comfortable without health insurance, home insurance, and some money for repair and replacement. Thankfully, unless there is an economic collapse or other catasrophy, I won't have to worry about it.
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:53 AM   #167
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I think Scott Burn's considers the cost of living in a home at 1% of its' value per year.

So, for my house, I should budget $1430 annually for the eventual replacement of the roof, water heater, etc.

Not sure where he came upon this number, however...
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:06 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I agree HaHa. A good example above. 2Cor521 relies on a paid for house and a paid for car (I assume $1200/year covers gas/maint - not payments) to hit that $14,500 number. But he will need a new water heater, a new car, a new roof, etc. Amortize those costs over time and it will add up.

...

IMO, if you don't account for replacement costs, you don't really have a 'budget', you have a fantasy.

-ERD50
You're correct. I have a 1995 Toyota Corolla that was paid off a long time ago. It's so old that it has stopped depreciating; in fact it appreciated by $80 last year. The $1200 covers gas/ maintenance/ repairs/ licensing/ emissions test, etc.

I understand the mechanics of accounting for replacement costs. To be blunt, I think I stick my head in the sand on this issue as doing the accounting would push out my ostensible FIRE date. I'm too eager and impatient to get there.

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Old 02-08-2008, 11:14 AM   #169
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I think Scott Burn's considers the cost of living in a home at 1% of its' value per year.

So, for my house, I should budget $1430 annually for the eventual replacement of the roof, water heater, etc.

Not sure where he came upon this number, however...
Out of the air, if he meant to include taxes and insurance!

Surely he didn't. :confused:
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:28 PM   #170
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1. 28,400 Base line needed (no mortgage -- no debt -- Federal retiree health insurance premiums included --- amount is before taxes)

2. 2 people

3. Midwest

4. Working (22years in Fed) 16 to go


$28,400 above is Min NEEDED but will have closer to 70k/year at current savings rate.
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:44 PM   #171
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Out of the air, if he meant to include taxes and insurance!

Surely he didn't. :confused:
I've also heard the 1% per year rule of thumb, for maintenance/replacement costs only, as a long-term average.
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:54 PM   #172
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Out of the air, if he meant to include taxes and insurance!

Surely he didn't. :confused:
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I've also heard the 1% per year rule of thumb, for maintenance/replacement costs only, as a long-term average.
What he said...
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Old 02-09-2008, 02:31 AM   #173
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1) $75,000 - no mortgage, no debts.
2) 2
3) Chicago suburbs
4) still working 4 days a week - full FIRE by July 2011 at 56
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Old 02-09-2008, 01:07 PM   #174
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Our expenses plus taxes and health in retirement: $78,000. No mortgage. Current ages 52 and 51. One working FT, the other PT. Two college aged children, one graduates in 2009, the other in 2011. Upstate NY, 3 hrs. N of NYC.
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:29 PM   #175
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Given that, the bare bones budget I posted earlier isn't even bare bones: It includes my car expenses, eating out, air conditioning, and some other things that I don't consider needs. I could probably cut it back to $8K or less pretty easily.

2Cor521

(1) Ignoring the fact that I still have a mortgage, which is not immaterial.
Me too but DW would have to be one of those non-essential needs that I would have to get rid of
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:45 PM   #176
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Let me jest a little...

1) $0/year no mortgage on $2 million paid off apartment, Mercedes car paid for, social security, medicare, eat at soup kitchen, clothes and furnishings from hand me downs, all other expenses paid by barter and trust fund :-)
2) 5
3) New York City
4) FIREd

In case it isn't clear, I agree that many of the estimates here are wildly optimistic. Not because the numbers aren't correct, but because they are not sustainable, relying on expenditures in other years. Or they rely on outside contributions.

I think some people have been treating this exercise as "what is the least that I could withdraw from my checking account in a single year if I have all the resources I have now and didn't have to replace anything". That is an interesting exercise but not at all useful for apples to apples comparison with others.
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:12 PM   #177
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I think some people have been treating this exercise as "what is the least that I could withdraw from my checking account in a single year if I have all the resources I have now and didn't have to replace anything". That is an interesting exercise but not at all useful for apples to apples comparison with others.
I think you may be correct. My bottom floor for RE is $60K/year after tax, but am planning on $70K/year.
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:36 PM   #178
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I haven't got a clue what my 'floor' would be - after Katrina, I became less bullet proof after moving inland and let my expenses drift up to about 4% plus early SS plus non cola - cause I don't want my money to exceed my time.

New stuff - medical insurance, car payment, mortgage, cable, cell phone, higher taxes - property, federal, state.

All in maybe 60k with maybe another 20 or so on top if I wish to party till I puke, travel harder, or remodel something.

A long long way from 12k(my one time only 90's low) - don't you just love time in the market - the first ten ER years of cheap bastardhood really paid off - but you can't go home again - but it was fun while it lasted.

heh heh heh - .
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Old 02-09-2008, 08:26 PM   #179
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Me too but DW would have to be one of those non-essential needs that I would have to get rid of
Yup, DW's and children are expensive. Cheap b*stardhood is precisely that. Not as much fun, but cheap.

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Old 02-09-2008, 09:30 PM   #180
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I can live on about 25K plus medical. I could probably live on less, no mortgage, private well and septic tank so low utilities, taxes reduced for low income elderly and I could grow a garden so might survive on 10K. We heat with wood.
I will have more income because I will get SS of about 14K and have enough keep about 400K invested so 16K from that and maybe 8K from rental income so will have 38K without dipping into savings. Every year I wait adds about 50K to my nest egg.

Western WA rural
One person to speak of, roommate pays me rent we don't share money so I don't pay his expenses.
I am still working, I don't mind and roommate can't retire yet.
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