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View Poll Results: At age 62, your payment would be about... (per person, see instructions)
$0 a month 6 3.95%
$1-250 a month 3 1.97%
$251-500 a month 3 1.97%
$501-750 a month 6 3.95%
$751-1,000 a month 11 7.24%
$1,001-1,250 a month 18 11.84%
$1,251-1,500 a month 38 25.00%
$1,501-1,750 a month 43 28.29%
$1,751-2,000 a month 14 9.21%
$2,001-2,250 a month 5 3.29%
$2,251-2,500 a month 2 1.32%
$2,501-2,750 a month 3 1.97%
$2,751-3000 a month 0 0%
>$3,000 a month 0 0%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-28-2009, 08:13 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisinthru View Post
It was lucky and smart! Lucky to get that government job with the great pension and smart to hold onto it for enough years to build the pension. Retired at 55 with very few money worries.

Had I stayed with jobs that were in the SS system I would undoubtedly be still working.

You guys that are drawing SS can thank me for my contributions! That surely wouldn't hurt anyone.....
The SS recipients would thank you even more if your pension would get thrown into the lot, and your benefits recalculated.

Not that I really want that to happen to you, of course. We in the private sector have our own 401k and IRA that we try to protect, like the character in Lost in America and his "nest egg".

When in Pennsylvania, we made a tour of the Amish country. We then learned that the Amish went to the IRS and Congress to demand to opt out of SS. As the result, the Amish do not pay SS, but also get no SS benefits. Note that they pay full income and sales taxes.

I am not at all familiar with how public pensions work, but it appears that some were able to get excluded like the Amish. Good for them; their money did not get thrown into the "lock box". If you had to pay into SS for a few years which were now forfeited, I think you are still ahead.
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:52 PM   #42
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Let me ask someone this . If say I am 62 and make $40,000 a year. My estimate SS would be $1000 a month if I started recieving today. I would end up not getting any money from SS if I kept working because of the $14,160 limit. Is that correct ? But if I delayed SS until I am 66 then I could then recieve the $1000 a month plus my salary. Oldtrig
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:08 PM   #43
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oldtrig, here is the answer to your question: Can you work and get Social Security at the same time?
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:18 PM   #44
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Certain religious groups can request exemption to social security on religious grounds. From instructions for IRS Form 4029:

Recognized religious group. A recognized religious group must
meet all the following requirements:
c It is conscientiously opposed to accepting benefits of any private
or public insurance that makes payments in the event of death,
disability, old age, or retirement; makes payments for the cost of
medical care; or provides services for medical care (including social
security and Medicare benefits).
c It has provided a reasonable level of living for its dependent
members.
c It has existed continuously since December 31, 1950."

RE2Boys
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE2Boys View Post
Certain religious groups can request exemption to social security on religious grounds. From instructions for IRS Form 4029:

Recognized religious group. A recognized religious group must
meet all the following requirements:
c It is conscientiously opposed to accepting benefits of any private
or public insurance that makes payments in the event of death,
disability, old age, or retirement; makes payments for the cost of
medical care; or provides services for medical care (including social
security and Medicare benefits).
c It has provided a reasonable level of living for its dependent
members.
c It has existed continuously since December 31, 1950."

RE2Boys

My sister is a sister in fact she is the head nun of a large community of teaching nuns and they pay SS . Their order has an assisted living to complete care for the older nuns and apparently SS really help with this .
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:59 PM   #46
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Because I did not work in 2009, my projected earnings going forward will include a lot of zero years to complete the 35 years needed for the indexed average in the benefit calculation. However, because SS replaces only 15% of the higher layer of income (i.e. bend point), the hit I will take no matter when I begin drawing benefits will not be too big.

I was assuming a 4% annual wage indexing factor which has been the long-term average to adjust my historical earnings.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:07 PM   #47
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I am not a public worker, hence would not even be aware of the recent changes in SS if I did not first learn about it from this thread:

Social Security Fairness Act of 2009 H.R. 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by RE2Boys View Post
Certain religious groups can request exemption to social security on religious grounds ...IRS Form 4029...
Interesting! I wonder when the last time was that the IRS received that form. Note the requirement that a religious group must be in existence since 1950. It prevents any new sect from being formed for the purpose of avoiding SS.
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Old 11-29-2009, 12:29 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Interesting! I wonder when the last time was that the IRS received that form. Note the requirement that a religious group must be in existence since 1950. It prevents any new sect from being formed for the purpose of avoiding SS.
So if someone claimed to belong to such a group and did all the documentation, I wonder if they have to periodically recertify? Or, can a person just be Amish-for-a-day, get out of social security, and then continue to worship and adhere to the tenets of the religion in a more private, personal way for the next 40 years (I mean, in such a way that he wouldn't actually attend services or keep in touch with the rest of the flock).

If you contribute to SS for 40 quarters and then get religion for 30 years, do they reduce your SS check under some type of WEP-like proviso for the religiously observant?

Why do I learn of every loophole too late to use it?
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:34 AM   #49
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You might consider taking it at 62, then, at age 70, paying back what you've gotten and start at the new amount. That way, if you die at age 68, you'll have received $100,000 more than if you had waited.
If I'm dead, I don't think any amout of money will make a difference ...

Anyway, we've reviewed the plan concerning payback at age 70 (and a lot of other posts have been made on this current "option", on many forums) but I'm a simple person and don't want the hassle of paying tax on current unused benefits (e.g. current SS income, which would have to be saved/invested), filing/refiling taxes, and facing the risk of the law changing within the next eight years (when I turn 70).

I would be different if (as in our case) we really needed that SS income in retirement; fortunately we don't. It's just extra icing on the cake. Along with the fact that our remainder estate is going to charity, we don't have to worry about funding another generation. If we're there when the train leaves the station (e.g. we're still alive, and collecting SS) - great. If not? So be it.

There have been many studies/articles on the "split decision" as related to the 62/70 solution - here's one reference (look under "Team Play"):

Two Ways To Optimize Social Security Benefits - Features
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:08 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Cruisinthru View Post
My answer was "0". I have a government pension that offsets the need to pay me anything. I worked between ten and fifteen years and paid into SS.
You need 40 quarters of SS for minimum eligibility, 10-15 years should provide that.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:06 AM   #51
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So if someone claimed to belong to such a group and did all the documentation, I wonder if they have to periodically recertify? Or, can a person just be Amish-for-a-day, get out of social security, and then continue to worship and adhere to the tenets of the religion in a more private, personal way for the next 40 years (I mean, in such a way that he wouldn't actually attend services or keep in touch with the rest of the flock).

If you contribute to SS for 40 quarters and then get religion for 30 years, do they reduce your SS check under some type of WEP-like proviso for the religiously observant?

Why do I learn of every loophole too late to use it?
I don't think you can evade SS that way, by claiming to be an isolated Amish.

The Amish are a true self-sufficient group. When one needs to go to the hospital, they would pitch in to pay for their members in need. So, they are truly self-insured and do not pose a drain on the SS and Medicare.

I cannot be an Amish though, not just on religion ground but because of their way of life and culture. They rejected electricity and I am an electronic/electrical engineer. Duh! I am also too old to learn High German. Heck, I cannot even learn any German.

Without electricity, lighting is tough, but their women do have kitchen appliances to help them. They have cloth washers and even bread dough mixers that run on compressed air! I still don't see how one can run a CPU by a mechanical means without converting to electricity. So, no Web surfing, no Internet, no ER forum BS'ing. Exactly the things that the Amish consider anathema!

Think about it, Samclem. Would you rather pay the SS tax so you can post here?
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:16 PM   #52
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$1411. Avg of $1813 & $1008, but not counting on it...
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:56 PM   #53
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Hmmm, couple of points. Mine is estimated at $1394 as of last Spring, i have a UK wife who is supposed to get the spousal approx 50% of my amount. So around $1050 for the average for both of us. Another question about the pension somebody early on mentioned.....will my work pension count as "earned income"? I am also a school teacher (lucky to get $16k a year) but I was under the impression (never trust MY impressions....) that the earned income was for actual working income.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:15 PM   #54
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Another question about the pension somebody early on mentioned.....will my work pension count as "earned income"?
no
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I am not a public worker, hence would not even be aware of the recent changes in SS if I did not first learn about it from this thread:

Social Security Fairness Act of 2009 H.R. 235



Interesting! I wonder when the last time was that the IRS received that form. Note the requirement that a religious group must be in existence since 1950. It prevents any new sect from being formed for the purpose of avoiding SS.
I'm assuming they get it all the time from amish community.
TJ
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:01 PM   #56
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$1,721 for me, $837 for DW so avg of $1,279.

We plan on DW taking hers at 62 and me applying for spousal benefit when I get to Full age at 66 and x months then applying for my own benefit at 70. Of course, many things may change over the next 15 years...
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:35 PM   #57
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We will be in the range of $1000. I have maxed out for 12 years, but since I was local hire in a foreign country for 8 years prior to moving back to the US and getting on a US payroll, and since DW only has 4 quarters (spousal benefit only), and since I will be retiring way earlier than 62, we won't get much. When I do my calculations, I never include SS in them anyway, because I'm not sure if it will be there, if it will be means tested, etc. Rather not count on it. Will it be icing on the cake? Well, yes, but since I did earn it and pay it, I should have my cake and my icing too...but no guarantees.

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Old 11-29-2009, 05:36 PM   #58
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I'm assuming they get it all the time from amish community.
TJ
Of course! Why did I assume that once one has declared himself an Amish, he does not have to submit the same form every year? Or that their offsprings do not have to be certified in some form. It can't be so easy! Oh well, I am sure they would be glad to comply.

Now, there is a much smaller religious group in North Dakota, but with a similar practice of rejecting modern technologies. I forget the name, but wonder if they are also exempted from SS. How many are there? I am more curious now.

PS. I remember now. They are the Hutterites. And yes, they are also exempted as I just checked out. In a recent article, in National Geographic if my memory serves, a Hutterite elder said they accepted no new members. They led a hard life, he said, and that it was tough enough for born members to stay in.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:21 PM   #59
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I'm not sure what the maximum SS benefit is for an individual, but I do question anything more than $2,000 per month at age 62

Edit: I found this on the Elder Law website:
Since benefits at age 62 are reduced by 25%, that would indicate the maximum monthly number on Al's poll would be under $2,000.
I agree. Have to wonder how people come up with number greater than $2,000?
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:29 PM   #60
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