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Old 05-11-2008, 06:25 PM   #61
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I think that within the next few years we will see in this country a significant move toward a socialistic economy.
Thread hijacking is running wild. I'll chime in with the observation that with all the politicos falling all over themselves to come forth with some form of universal health care the cost of ER will drop significantly. Right now I'm budgeting $20K/year for DW and my heath care prior to Medicare. If Medicare was universally available at any age, I've saved about $15K/yr. That means I've suddenly seen about $400K of net worth being freed up for other uses.
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Old 05-11-2008, 06:30 PM   #62
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I like the new way of thinking. So far, none of my dates have ever paid -- not even DW.
Realize that this "new way of thinking" is so far mostly a new way of talking. Please let us know when you see it in real life.

Ha
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Old 05-11-2008, 08:22 PM   #63
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Realize that this "new way of thinking" is so far mostly a new way of talking. Please let us know when you see it in real life.
Indeed. Talk is cheap. Likewise, when it comes to dating, so are most women (but not all). The politically correct may find this offensive, but it's also a reality. In the 30-50 first dates I've been on in the last 15 years, three women offered to pay half. Two were insistent (bless their hearts). The third was shocked when I said OK. But she was a self-described feminist so heaven forbid should she be expected to pay her share. The vast majority of these women were professionals and well-educated. One might expect things to be different, but they're not.

Now, I don't specifically mind paying. I can accept social custom and I imagine a few women don't offer because they think the man might be offended (i.e., the awkwardness of a first date). But what they don't realize is that there's nothing more attractive or feminine than a truly independent woman. Give me Caroline Ingalls from Little House on the Prairie. She could bake bread and then go out and plow the back 40. What a babe.

Back to the thread. Can one retire on $600K, at an inflation adjusted withdrawal rate of $24K/yr? Likely yes, assuming you're being realistic with your expenses. In fact, the odds are that your portfolio will continue to grow faster than inflation assuming it is properly invested. However, all this may be cutting it close. You may need a backup plan that allows you to cut expenses (e.g., move to a less expensive place), if necessary, or bring in supplemental income. Personally, I'd want some sort of a safety cushion (or a good backup plan). Having an extra $200K or so could make a significant difference.
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:21 PM   #64
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Realize that this "new way of thinking" is so far mostly a new way of talking. Please let us know when you see it in real life.

Ha

Ha , I hate to disagree with you but in most of the Northeast this is the norm . Women usually let the guys pay the first few times and after that it's either 50/50 or turns paying . If either party has a problem with it then that person will cook or order in for their turn . How is it fair that you both make the same or close to the same amount of money but one person is required to pay ?
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:24 PM   #65
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Personally, I'd want some sort of a safety cushion (or a good backup plan).
I'm your age, OP, and not that far from you in net worth. I live in Northern California. I hope I can retire or at least pre-retire (part time, temp jobs, etc.) because I mean to blow this circus real soon now.

I live near a small medical college and I'm seriously considering renting out a couple of rooms to med students. I figure they study all the time and would be relatively quiet. I could still live in the home / use it as a base and take long hiking / traveling vacations. With DP still working for a while there'd be someone to hold down the fort.

Seems like I'd be trading some loss of privacy / roommate hassles for a couple of years in harness... and who knows, I might meet wonderful people along the way.

Is anyone else considering roommates / currently renting out rooms to defray the current or potential costs of RE?


Regarding the hijack:

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In the 30-50 first dates I've been on in the last 15 years, three women offered to pay half.
Unfortunately for you, Shawn, you never met me!

But seriously, I'm not sure how to interpret your use of the term "date." If you invited a woman to be your guest, didn't you expect to pay? Or, put another way, how many of these 30-50 did you invite out (vs them inviting you), and of those who didn't offer half, how many reciprocated with an invitation of their own?

I don't mean this as any kind of challenge. I'm just curious, because I saw a lot of mixed signals myself back when I was still in the game.

Back then, I'd let the man pay for the first date if he'd invited me. On a couple of occasions I invited first -- and in those cases I paid.

If I liked the guy I later I offered to "treat the next time." Some took me up on it, other's didn't.

The only times I offered to pay half on the first date, if a guy had invited me, was if I wasn't at ALL interested and thought it fair to mitigate his costs. (If this is what your three out of 50 were up to, their motives weren't as generous as you think!)

If we met on the internet, I always figured the first meeting was a get-to-know-you and I paid half.

All of this was my way of trying to be as fair as I could be, but I never understood how it went over. Was the guy appreciative of my inviting him out and paying, or paying half on the first internet meeting, or did he think I was trying too hard? Did he think I was flaunting my own financial fitness and casting aspersions on his? I never did figure out all the wrinkles...

I was told by one guy (a married friend, not a prospect) that I was upending roles and not allowing guys to be the pursuers.

None of this matters much now, 7 years into a very happy relationship. But it's a matter of mild curiosity to me, still.
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Old 05-11-2008, 11:32 PM   #66
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If you are living on $200 a week after the mortgage, it does not take much to upset the budget. Hence, dating can be troublesome. A date in the west can easily put 100-200 miles on a car. Last weekend we went to an auction and bought nothing, but I put 220 miles on my car. At today's fuel prices, that adds up. Throw in a couple of burgers for lunch, and an easy 25% of the week's money is gone, and I still have to pay utilities.

The woman I am dating is more than fair about picking up her share, that is not the problem. The problem is that 2K a month prior to taxes does not go very far if you want to do more than stay at home. Heck, living 60 miles apart, just sitting at either one of our homes for the weekend is going to cost one of us for gas.
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Old 05-12-2008, 09:48 AM   #67
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I'd want to be a bit closer to early SS, which would also, hopefully, allow the $600k to grow. Alternatively, a couple of years of extreme cheap bastardhood might seal the deal...
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:52 AM   #68
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But seriously, I'm not sure how to interpret your use of the term "date." If you invited a woman to be your guest, didn't you expect to pay? Or, put another way, how many of these 30-50 did you invite out (vs them inviting you), and of those who didn't offer half, how many reciprocated with an invitation of their own?
Thank you for your response, Caroline. Your last name isn't Ingalls, is it? Do you know how to use a shotgun and a plow?

But that's the thing. Technically, most of the 30-50 women asked me out. Most of these women I met via the internet or by a similar method. My usual approach was to wait for the woman to contact me. I'd get maybe 1 response a month, which was a rate I could handle. After a few emails and/or phone calls, we would meet for lunch, dinner, or something else. And it wasn't just the paying part. It was everything else too. For example, I was always expected to drive to them or their community (typically 1 hour each way). Although I went out on at least a 2nd date with perhaps half of these women, I can't say it was ever in a reciprocal sense, at least in general. In the end, this whole process became exhausting for me.

You are correct about one of the three women who did pay. She was clearly not interested and was being nice about splitting the costs. One of the others was neutral, and the third was interested. In fact, she payed for our entire lunch. She said that since I drove the hour to her, it was only fair that she pay. I was overwhelmed. And she classified herself as a traditional woman.

It most studies or polls I've seen, most women say that they want the man to pay, whereas most men say that they feel delighted when the woman makes a contribution. I can remember always "battling" with an ex-girlfriend about who would pay - "I want to pay". "No. You got to pay last time. I get to pay this time". Even when we get together and do something today, she's the same way. And that is a quality that many men find incredibly attractive in a woman. A self-reliant woman who can take care of herself.

Just so I can connect this post back to the original thread, a person needs to consider all potential future costs when formulating a retirement plan. For a single person living or planning to live on a bare-bones retirement budget, dating/relationships can take a significant chunk out of one's budget, especially if you're a man. It you're currently single in every sense of the word and plan to stay that way, this shouldn't be a problem. However, life circumstances can change. Hence, it's important to evaluate the consequences of these changes should they occur. That is why a safety cushion can be very useful for many people.
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:42 PM   #69
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Wondering if it's feasible to retire and live off these funds.
Nope! At least not "in my life" ...

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Old 05-12-2008, 03:11 PM   #70
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Hi, would like very much your thoughts. I'm 50, single, no kids, no debt except $14K on mortgage. Have $600,000 in savings in the form of my 401(k). Wondering if it's feasible to retire and live off these funds.My overhead is low, just need around $2,000 month,which takes care of apartment maintenance, utilities, healthcare insurance. Thanks for your advice.
Some people on this board are capable of amazing feats of cheap living. I think I am a careful spender, but I am dead sure that for me it would not be possible. I do notice how much cheaper it would be to live here in the Midwest where I am visiting than it is on the West Coast where I live. And the difference is not just housing, though that is huge. It is also groceries, meals out, drinks, car washes - almost everything that one spends his money on.

Ha
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:12 PM   #71
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Thank you for your response, Caroline. Your last name isn't Ingalls, is it? Do you know how to use a shotgun and a plow?
LOL! No, Shawn, my last name isn't Ingalls, but I appreciate the question.

As for the rest, I've never seen a plow in my life, that I can recall. But I did nail 14 of dem little clay pigeon suckers on my very first try -- with a .410.

Regarding the dating question -- keep at it -- I had to meet a lot of folks but one finally took. Your Laura is out there somewhere!
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:18 PM   #72
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All of this was my way of trying to be as fair as I could be, but I never understood how it went over. Was the guy appreciative of my inviting him out and paying, or paying half on the first internet meeting, or did he think I was trying too hard? Did he think I was flaunting my own financial fitness and casting aspersions on his? I never did figure out all the wrinkles...
It's tricky. I've invited four different women out for social events since my divorce -- three just as friends and one romantically that didn't work out. In all four cases I've only had one situation where the girl paid, and that was one of the friends on our second get-together. Even then it freaked me out a little because I wondered what messages I was sending to her -- did she think I was an unsuccessful cheapskate or a delightfully enlightened egalitarian? I dunno.

After discussing this with another one of the friends over dinner at a fancy restaurant, she said she'd invite and pay next time...still waiting for that phone call, but not expecting it really. In her case she has better options for her social calendar I think.

I've decided part of the reason it's tricky is that men and women are trying to communicate via social customs that are ill-defined and differ from person to person. What does it mean if she gives me a hug after the second date? What does it mean if he pays for a really nice dinner? I think I would be delighted to find someone who was a straight shooter who I could be comfortable just having these kinds of conversations with.

To Shawn's point about having a financial buffer in case a romance pops up, I personally am planning on a single life and retirement -- if the right lady comes along then I'll do what's necessary; either go back to work, have her work, or retire on our combined nest egg, as the case may be. But then again I am probably weird in that respect: I am single and am working towards being self-sufficient on my own rather than trying to find someone to fulfill my needs. But there are precious few single women my age who would agree with that philosophy.

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Old 05-12-2008, 10:52 PM   #73
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But then again I am probably weird in that respect: I am single and am working towards being self-sufficient on my own rather than trying to find someone to fulfill my needs. But there are precious few single women my age who would agree with that philosophy.

2Cor521
I doubt you could find many men with that philosophy either. And 2/3 of them are on this board.

Overall I believe it is better to attempt to find some people (plural) to help with one's needs. People are social; probably a huge majority absolutely need others, including some who have appeal for you as lovers.

I think I might get depressed without warm interactions. Anyway, I have no intention of putting that to the test.

Ha
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:17 PM   #74
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Thank you for your response, Caroline. Your last name isn't Ingalls, is it? Do you know how to use a shotgun and a plow?
Sort of reminds me of


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Old 05-13-2008, 01:02 AM   #75
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I doubt you could find many men with that philosophy either. And 2/3 of them are on this board.

Overall I believe it is better to attempt to find some people (plural) to help with one's needs. People are social; probably a huge majority absolutely need others, including some who have appeal for you as lovers.

I think I might get depressed without warm interactions. Anyway, I have no intention of putting that to the test.

Ha
The original context of the conversation was "dating", something that I equate with romantic relationships. I'm probably being very inarticulate, but in general what I mean to convey is that, for me personally, I think it would be better for me to enter into a romantic relationship (a) in a few years after I've healed completely from my divorce, and (b) when I am not needing a romantic relationship.

As a practical matter, I can see it is a good thing to have a circle of friends of various kinds, and I'm slowly building a collection of my own. They can certainly meet various needs for social interaction, and helping to meet various needs.

To me, as I think I may have rather bluntly stated before, the only things I can see that a romantic relationship/marriage gets you that a friendship does not are three: (a) sex, (b) certain tax and legal benefits, and (c) lifetime companionship (in theory, anyway). (b) is of dubious value to me, especially considering the tax and legal drawbacks of marriage. The other two -- with quite frankly (c) being in the long run vastly more important -- are the sole sticking points in my mind to remaining single for the rest of my life.

Again, the previous paragraph is probably not quite as artfully or carefully stated as I would prefer but it is the unvarnished truth.

2Cor521
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:11 PM   #76
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Hi, would like very much your thoughts. I'm 50, single, no kids, no debt except $14K on mortgage. Have $600,000 in savings in the form of my 401(k). Wondering if it's feasible to retire and live off these funds.My overhead is low, just need around $2,000 month,which takes care of apartment maintenance, utilities, healthcare insurance. Thanks for your advice.
If you are a really good salesman, maybe you could find a product to sell that you really believe in. You could work at that part-time and probably make some good money and enjoy the work and the money.

If you invest the $600K well you ought to get at least 8 percent per year, so it ought to grow better than inflation even after you take out your currently planned $2,000 per month -- which will have to grow with inflation as well.

You didn't mention Social Security. I just learned this week that it's calculated on the highest 35 (thirty-five) years of earnings, including years with zero earnings if necessary! So one reason to work a few more years might be to increase potential Soc. Sec. income, although for you it would only be a supplement.

I'm 58, single, no dependents, no debts and have been living on less than $2K per month for years, so I know that's do-able -- if not luxurious.

Ed Cannon - Austin, Texas, USA
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:24 AM   #77
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3) what happens if the market doesn't turn around and the next 3 or 4 years you don't see any appreciation (which the 4% withdrawal rate eventually relies upon to keep even/ahead of inflation), ... i.e. bad personal timing of retirement
You should read up on the concept of bucketizing your investments so
you can ride out market downturns.
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:35 AM   #78
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You didn't mention Social Security. I just learned this week that it's calculated on the highest 35 (thirty-five) years of earnings, including years with zero earnings if necessary! So one reason to work a few more years might be to increase potential Soc. Sec. income, although for you it would only be a supplement.
remember that the amount of SS you get falls off quickly:
calculate you avg monthly income over the 35 years, including
the 0 years;
you get 90% of the first $700
35% of the next $4300
and only 15% on anything above that...so if you already average
$5000/month (older earnings are inflation adjusted),
there is little to be gained by working more.
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:15 AM   #79
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remember that the amount of SS you get falls off quickly:
calculate you avg monthly income over the 35 years, including
the 0 years;
you get 90% of the first $700
35% of the next $4300
and only 15% on anything above that...so if you already average
$5000/month (older earnings are inflation adjusted),
there is little to be gained by working more.
TJ
You can get a pretty good estimate of your future SS benefit (unadjusted for inflation before beginning to take the payments) on the SS website. This would require you to enter your actual SS income off the statement all of us US workers get every year. Of course, you put in "0" for the years after you plan to FIRE. It's actually amazing how little it costs in monthly benefits to drop out of the SS system a few years early. You'll need to run your own numbers to see.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:56 PM   #80
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You should read up on the concept of bucketizing your investments so
you can ride out market downturns.
TJ
I suspect you were skimming my post. I was suggesting that OP ask himself these questions. I am a 'bucketeer'.
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