Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-02-2007, 05:39 AM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finance Dave View Post
My insurance carrier required that I increase my auto limits before they'd let me have an umbrella. I'm in Indiana and have Prudential.
The same here (USAA). When living in FL I took out a Umbrella policy and they required the Liability of the Home and Auto Policies be increased to, I think, $500K each before issuing the UP.
__________________

__________________
Vietnam Veteran, CW4 USA, Retired 1979
OAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-08-2007, 01:22 PM   #42
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
Nearly all 401(k)s have complete protection from creditors under ERISA, no matter how much money is in the plan.
Hmm...a rank amateur here, but this raises a question of great interest to me.

I'm fairly certain most, if not all of our ER income will be well protected. 401k, 401a, 457b and our pensions are pretty much untouchable in Washington State, from the little research I've done on the subject. Needless to say, this gives me significant warm fuzzies.

However, there seems to be some consensus that rolling over some/all of these plans to IRAs can make financial sense. And in our case, this would be required if we set up 72T withdrawals...an option I'd like to see remain on the table.

So, the above is the long-winded way of asking the following - do IRA rollovers jeopardize any protections I'd have otherwise?
__________________

__________________
Da Nag is offline   Reply With Quote
USAA Umbrella policy
Old 11-09-2007, 10:12 AM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
two4theroad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 216
USAA Umbrella policy

My question is this: If I purchase an Umbrella policy for $1m to protect my assets, what keeps the vultures from suing for $2m to get my insurance co. to pay $1m and me to pay the other $1m from my hard earned retirement money?

Also as an aside,
I have been getting quotes for an umbrella policy and use USAA for my auto coverage. Their quote was exactly the same as my homeowners policy quote for all coverage options.
They both require $500,000 min liability on house and cars and $250,000 on boat. They are both quoting from the same carrier Is this normal?
__________________
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.<br />-Robert A. Heinlein
two4theroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 10:26 AM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
I am with those who suggest the umbrella policy on top of your regular liability policy.

We have had several threads discussing whether having your assets in an "asset protection trust" or a "family limited partnership" is a good idea. I have said that they are not bullet proof ways to protect assets from creditors, but at least do put one more barrier between your assets and potential claims. It is something to think about anyway.

Knowing what assets are exempt from creditors in your state of residence is also helpful as you can maximize those exemptions.

When I was a bankruptcy trustee I saw over the years people file bankruptcy due to personal injury claims against them arising out of car accidents. Most of the time the claims were pretty small. The problem generally was that the debtor had no insurance or the bare minimum. Oddly, more often it was the debtor who had a personal injury claim against someone else and as a result of getting hurt, couldn't pay their bills. Sometimes I had to follow up on these claims. Generally I ended up settling with insurance companies.
Martha......... NICE AVATAR!! I don't need any explanation.........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 10:50 AM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Nag View Post
So, the above is the long-winded way of asking the following - do IRA rollovers jeopardize any protections I'd have otherwise?
If you file bankruptcy, the rollover IRA is fully protected if the money came from a 401k, or 457b. I am not absolutely sure about the 401a, I haven't looked it up.

If you don't file bankruptcy, then the protection of the rollover IRA is governed by state law. Some states provide full protection, many limit protection to the amount reasonably necessary for your and your dependents support, other states place a dollar limit on the amount protected. There might even be a few states that give no protection.

So, if things get bad and you have a big rollover IRA you might end up filing bankruptcy to protect it from creditors.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:33 PM   #46
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 249
Lively thread.... For those interested, I'd recommend a few layman's guides. I have the PC (Cd-rom) version of Made E-Z "Asset Protection" which covers much of what's gone before in this thread. I was concerned at the time (because I was considering marriage, a risk to one's assets all its own.) I'm pretty low risk -- retired, not an OB-GYN, don't drink and drive ("any more"). Most of "my" income comes from a family trust (not my choosing!).

Some things I didn't see mentioned, by the way:
Trusts -- many flavors, must be done right or you're screwed.

Retirement Assets -- mentioned, but protection can vary enormously by State. Sometimes as simple as buying the otherwise-disreputable variable annuity.

Homestead (your home) is all but untouchable in many States -- also varies enormously.

Florida has many of these attributes, perhaps due to the large number of old farts here in God's Waiting Room its popularity as a retirement haven.

Pay your taxes, and don't buy investment land that turns out to be a Superfund site, and you should do acceptably.

Finally, please consult with a legal or financial professional before committing to a change. Asset protection, or even plain estate planning, is really one place where trying to do it yourself can really *&$# things up.
__________________
I've got nothing against an honest day's work, provided that someone else does it.
pedorrero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 05:17 PM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,083
How would you get an umbrella policy when you don't own a home or car to insure?

MJ
__________________
I look to the present moment because that's where I live my life.
MJ is offline   Reply With Quote
offshore account
Old 11-10-2007, 03:06 AM   #48
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 101
offshore account

I'm recently retired but years ago set up a family limited partnership and an offshore account because I'm so paranoid of lawyers{if they really are out to get you maybe it's not paranoia]I've never been sued but it helped my peace of mind.From one of the posts it sounds like it can be pierced anyway. I'm glad I didn't know that before.Ignorance is bliss.
__________________
wolfbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 07:26 AM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbay View Post
... I'm so paranoid of lawyers{if they really are out to get you maybe it's not paranoia]I've never been sued but it helped my peace of mind.From one of the posts it sounds like it can be pierced anyway. I'm glad I didn't know that before.Ignorance is bliss.
Lawyers can be your friends also according to the profession: "Lawyers take a lot of heat from the general public. People sometimes see lawyers as evil or detrimental to society. However, most of the time this is only because people are judging lawyers based on a lack of knowledge of the legal system and all the work that goes into it. The truth is, when you are in a bind, a lawyer can be the best friend you have."

They claim that they have helped victims of Vioxx to achieving justice.
__________________
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 09:31 AM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ View Post
How would you get an umbrella policy when you don't own a home or car to insure?

MJ
I think you still can. They just require some minimums on home and car insurance - if you own them. Talk to your (or an) insurance company.

There is also renters insurance. Perhaps an umbrella policy can tie to that.

Audrey
__________________
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 11:16 AM   #51
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by two4theroad View Post
My question is this: If I purchase an Umbrella policy for $1m to protect my assets, what keeps the vultures from suing for $2m to get my insurance co. to pay $1m and me to pay the other $1m from my hard earned retirement money?

Also as an aside,
I have been getting quotes for an umbrella policy and use USAA for my auto coverage. Their quote was exactly the same as my homeowners policy quote for all coverage options.
They both require $500,000 min liability on house and cars and $250,000 on boat. They are both quoting from the same carrier Is this normal?
USAA also has umbrella policies. You should ask them for a quote.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 03:36 PM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
I think you still can. They just require some minimums on home and car insurance - if you own them. Talk to your (or an) insurance company.

There is also renters insurance. Perhaps an umbrella policy can tie to that.

Audrey
I just sold my car and I cancelled my auto insurance but unfortunately I could not keep my Geico umbrella because they require that you have an auto policy with them. I sold it because I no longer needed one.

MJ
__________________
I look to the present moment because that's where I live my life.
MJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 03:51 PM   #53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,463
Well, that may be a requirement by GEICO, but other insurance companies will have different options.

You might see what AON Recreation has to say (an insurance broker). We have a "fulltimer's insurance" - a version of homeowners/auto insurance for RVers who do not own a house, plus an umbrella, arranged through them - different insurance companies but they handle the "package".

Audrey
__________________
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 05:25 PM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,083
Thanks Audrey. I realize that this was a Geico requirement. I have to do a bit of research.
__________________
I look to the present moment because that's where I live my life.
MJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 05:49 PM   #55
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
MJ, a friend of mine got "renters" insurance and an umbrella for his father who was in a nursing home. Dad had cognitive impairments and would periodically take a swipe at people. This insurance covered that liability.

Talk to an agent as to what might work for you.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 05:51 PM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ View Post
Thanks Audrey. I realize that this was a Geico requirement. I have to do a bit of research.
Yes, when we sold our house and went full time in the RV, we had to deal with total changes in our insurance. There are only a few companies/agents who deal with the specialized insurance requirements of an RV fulltimer, but thankfully they are out there!

So, I suspect your case is simpler than ours, and that there are companies or agents willing to provide you the service.

Audrey
__________________
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 07:07 PM   #57
Recycles dryer sheets
bigla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mt. Pleasant
Posts: 138
I have a 1million umbrella and fairly high auto liability and sure glad I did. I had a head on collision. IMO it was not clear who was at fault but I had a safe car with seatbelts and airbags and the young guy in the other car was not wearing seatbelts and car was older and not equiped with safety features. I pretty much walked away from the accident. He was seriously injured. I was out of state, he was local. My insurance co felt they would lose in court so they got 1.3 million from the insurance company as a final settlement.
After the accident I did move ownership of our homes to my wife and we segregated our finances. We knew the change in home deeds would stand up to a court challenge but felt we would not make it easy for them if it came down to it.
I was told IRA type money was protected.
Larry
__________________
Retired early and loving it.
bigla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 02:18 PM   #58
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedorrero View Post
I was concerned at the time (because I was considering marriage, a risk to one's assets all its own.)
Consult a good lawyer to draw up a pre-nuptial agreement for you.
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 02:21 PM   #59
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
Lawyers can be your friends also according to the profession: "The truth is, when you are in a bind, a lawyer can be the best friend you have."
Yeah, just ask O.J. Simpson.
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 02:26 PM   #60
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by two4theroad View Post
My question is this: If I purchase an Umbrella policy for $1m to protect my assets, what keeps the vultures from suing for $2m to get my insurance co. to pay $1m and me to pay the other $1m from my hard earned retirement money?
Nothing. But you will still be $1 million ahead.
__________________

__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much of your nest egg is after-tax money? Rich_by_the_Bay FIRE and Money 51 04-17-2007 09:04 PM
Cracking the nest egg FlogBlogger FIRE and Money 3 03-13-2007 10:17 PM
How To Tap Your Nest Egg & Not Go Broke REWahoo FIRE and Money 4 07-16-2005 09:51 AM
"The Debate Over Nest Egg Math" Nords FIRE and Money 23 04-25-2005 05:42 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.