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Old 01-28-2008, 09:28 AM   #21
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Methinks we have a new guru.

Help us Mommie, do.

Ha
Anyone else getting a *shudder* female Kiyosaki vibe?
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:23 AM   #22
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Wow, people, have I jumped into a pool of women-eating sharks? Is everyone subject to this hazing period (as referenced in a PM to me from Rich in Tampa)? My intro post was closed on me and I've expressed my disappointment to the moderator. Here's what I wrote in my PM:

"I often track several threads in a forum. Are you saying that anytime I join into a thread all but one will be closed on me? I don't get it. My intro thread is a different topic than the RE question thread. I'd really prefer to keep them separate. It also makes it possible for me to use the quote function and for those following the thread to receive updates. I looked back on the Intro category (clicked through over 6 months worth of threads) and find that my intro is the ONLY one closed. Is this part of the hazing?? How does one get past this hazing period and into helpful and respectful communication?"

I would love to respond to all of the questions posed here, but I'm quite honestly, hesitant. Let's take this as an example:

---
NotSoonEnough Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Anyone else getting a *shudder* female Kiyosaki vibe?

Millionaire Mommy Next Door: The Modern Girl's Guide to $uccess


---
A successful woman makes some of you shudder?? What's up with that? Is this forum filled with male chauvinists? What is the female/male ratio here? I can handle differences of opinion, but not blatant chauvinism and disrespect. I have better things to do with my free time. Please advise. Am I in the wrong place?
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:33 AM   #23
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Yep. I've been reading your fan club - here and over at the retire early homepage - Montel doesn't get rave reviews either.

Now then: being the proud owner of a Curmudgeon certificate downloaded from this very forum.

I notice that you mentioned - the plan/newsletter you follow is run by a a a WOMAN!

Ah ha - I keep telling you folks - it's da hormones and it's incurable. In a sane world - men would be banned from picking stocks or running mutual funds. Picking football teams - yes, stocks no.

heh heh heh - please don't quibble - I know what I know.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:38 AM   #24
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I could care less if you are a woman, man, both or neither. My reference to Kiyosaki was based on my inherent tendency to recoil from people with strong self-promotional messages.

I think you are getting kicked around a bit because you A) do not appear to have lurked long enough to see what this place is all about, B) your initial post set off spam alerts for some of us, and C) your net worth and accomplishments, while praiseworthy I am sure, are not exceptional among this board's members (more like average to slightly below average).

I think you have interesting and worthwhile things to contribute, so I hope we did not scare you off already. But you should be aware that self-protion, outsized ego, etc. are like waving a red sheet in front of some of us.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:45 AM   #25
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As long as MMND has chosen to surface our brief PM conversation, the "Hi" thread was closed because of cross posting between that and the "Questions for.." thread, with a gentle final redirection post. This was solely for convenience, to avoid future cross-posting.

OP objected, took offense despite my assurances as to the reason, and I re-opened it as she requested.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:50 AM   #26
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I try and keep Jante Law in mind whenever I visit a new place... it's easier than whipping out the "you hate me because I'm <fill in the blank>" card.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:52 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by MillionaireMommyNextDoor View Post
Wow, people, have I jumped into a pool of women-eating sharks? Is everyone subject to this hazing period (as referenced in a PM to me from Rich in Tampa)?
No and no, respectively.

We have, in general, a great deal of tolerance for everyone except those people who come across as obnoxious. And here I am defining obnoxious to explicitly include people who volunteer to help me before determining whether (a) I think I want or need help, and (b) I respect and trust them enough to ask for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionaireMommyNextDoor View Post
A successful woman makes some of you shudder?? What's up with that? Is this forum filled with male chauvinists? What is the female/male ratio here? I can handle differences of opinion, but not blatant chauvinism and disrespect. I have better things to do with my free time. Please advise. Am I in the wrong place?
Again, no, N/A, and no.

I don't know what the female to male ratio is here, but of the people I like and respect on the board I know that several are female -- Want2Retire, Sarah in SC, Martha, and kaudrey to name a few. If you really want to know the board has a poll feature.

We can handle differences of opinion as well.

Whether you're in the wrong place or not is for you to decide, not anyone here. If you came hear to learn, I think the answer will be that you've come to a good place. If you came here thinking you know a lot and are here to teach us all, then maybe not.

2Cor521
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionaireMommyNextDoor View Post
A successful woman makes some of you shudder?? What's up with that? Is this forum filled with male chauvinists? What is the female/male ratio here? I can handle differences of opinion, but not blatant chauvinism and disrespect. I have better things to do with my free time. Please advise. Am I in the wrong place?
I haven't experienced any gender problems or conflicts here, that I can recall, other than what you seem to be attempting to stir up. I make no secret of being female, and I am quite aware of gender discrimination and do not feel this is a difficult place at all for an intelligent, thoughtful woman to exchange ideas and viewpoints. There may be more men than women here, but for the most part they are intelligent, charming, and have some fascinating ideas and opinions (as are/do the women here!!!)

As to whether or not you are in the wrong place, I think that may depend on what sort of attitude you bring to the forum. So far, the possible tendency towards bragging and towards a lack of interest in learning from others seems to be putting off a lot of people. You seem miffed that nobody is especially impressed. You seem to have little to no interest in any substantive discussion (I suppose that is related to the "learning" issue).
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:56 AM   #29
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This is a numbers analysis. So let's look at the numbers. I used the numbers from the blog; except for two. Which I think are required for proper analysis.

How do you post an excel spread sheet?

Assumptions



1. A house physically equal in either scenario
2. Owning and Renting in the same location

3. Utilities the same under both assumptions
4. For 10 year analysis - rent increases 2% per year - apx $65 - 75/mo











300,000 Paid off house









Owning Calculations

30,000 Opportunity Cost 10.0%

3,000 Property Taxes 1.0%

1,500 Home Ins



4,500 HOA/Repairs 1.5%

39,000 Total Expense Of Owning

6,000 Avg Annual Growth Rate 2.000%

33,000 Net Cost of Owning


2,750 Avg. Monthly Cost Of Owning














Cost of Renting - For One Year

3,250 Monthly Cost of Renting

39,000 Annual Cost of Renting








For One Year


(6,000) Incremental cost of Renting Vs Owing
(500) Incremental cost of Renting Vs Owning







Ten Year Analysis


330,000 Net Cost of Owning


420,211 Net cost of Renting


90,211 Higher cost of renting


9,021 Avg higher cost of renting/year
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:00 AM   #30
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Well Im impressed it only took 2 pages for the melt down to start.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:01 AM   #31
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Ah, the ER Welcome Wagon strikes again.

She's successful, articulate, enthusiastic, full of ideas. Cut her some slack.

She's not the first person to want to share her enthusiasm with a wide audience. Do you guys hold ESRBob to this same scrutiny? The Kaderlis? Nords? Sgeeee? (Oops, bad example.)
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:07 AM   #32
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Ah, the ER Welcome Wagon strikes again.

She's successful, articulate, enthusiastic, full of ideas. Cut her some slack.

She's not the first person to want to share her enthusiasm with a wide audience. Do you guys hold ESRBob to this same scrutiny? The Kaderlis? Nords? Sgeeee? (Oops, bad example.)
Yes, I think we do.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:13 AM   #33
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Yes, I think we do.
Yeah, I think everyone gets ripped a new one every once in a while. I guess that's why I've been posting cat pics lately.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:20 AM   #34
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Dex, to be fair, in her blog the $3250 rental house is totally different, and much, much nicer. She uses $1300 as the rental figure for the same $300,000 house.

Maybe that's possible in some markets, but I know for sure you can't rent a $300K house for $1300 in mine.

I'd feel much more comfortable with the blog if the headline was "Renting can beat owning" rather than the black-and-white "Renting beats owning" because I'm pretty certain it wouldn't beat it in my market. Plus a lot of people won't tolerate the risk to get 10% return on their investment.

So maybe the headline should be "Renting beats owning, if you live in a goofy real estate market and are willing to take big chances on your money."
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:28 AM   #35
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I haven't experienced any gender problems or conflicts here, that I can recall, other than what you seem to be attempting to stir up. I make no secret of being female, and I am quite aware of gender discrimination and do not feel this is a difficult place at all for an intelligent, thoughtful woman to exchange ideas and viewpoints. There may be more men than women here, but for the most part they are intelligent, charming, and have some fascinating ideas and opinions (as are/do the women here!!!)

As to whether or not you are in the wrong place, I think that may depend on what sort of attitude you bring to the forum. So far, the possible tendency towards bragging and towards a lack of interest in learning from others seems to be putting off a lot of people. You seem miffed that nobody is especially impressed. You seem to have little to no interest in any substantive discussion (I suppose that is related to the "learning" issue).
Another successful female here - who seconds WTR's posted opinion. We are here for sharing ideas - not hopping on to someone else's bandwagon. Sorry you are not getting lots of takers. Knock off the pompous 'tude, and you will find this is a warm and welcoming bunch!
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:32 AM   #36
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Its an analysis, but not necessarily the only one. I guess I'm not getting the immediate jump to a gender discrimination presumption on questioning the ideas.

I live in a pretty spiffy area but my costs to own are a lot less. The costs seem very inflated in the presented analysis.

Over the last 15 years, I've made enough on my primary residence to pay for my current house. So its essentially free, excepting the loss of investment opportunity on the money involved. Which would have done well in the late 90's but rather poorly in the early 2000's.

And the house is absolutely a source of income. I can sell it later and rent, I can mortgage or reverse mortgage all or part of it, I can take a home equity line of credit on it, I can rent a room, or I can rent out the entire house. Frankly I can get cash flow out of my house with less trouble and paperwork than selling some allegedly more liquid investment products.

My $500k house will probably be worth $1.5-3M+ in 40-50 years when I'm 80 or 90. A reverse mortgage is my backup-backup-emergency plan should we run out of money due to a long bear market around that time.

In some areas, it may be better to rent than own. I'd probably not choose to live in one of those areas.

As far as momentum investing, that works great until it stops working. Most people tend to highlight that period that it worked between the times it didnt work or data mine a longer series that showed how they would have done it to always make money, but the facts are that nobody's figured out how to make the shifts using currently available data for future investment returns.

Oh, and for all I care everyone involved in the discussion could have two sets of both sex organs. :
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:45 AM   #37
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Dex, to be fair, in her blog the $3250 rental house is totally different, and much, much nicer. She uses $1300 as the rental figure for the same $300,000 house.

Maybe that's possible in some markets, but I know for sure you can't rent a $300K house for $1300 in mine.

I'd feel much more comfortable with the blog if the headline was "Renting can beat owning" rather than the black-and-white "Renting beats owning" because I'm pretty certain it wouldn't beat it in my market. Plus a lot of people won't tolerate the risk to get 10% return on their investment.

So maybe the headline should be "Renting beats owning, if you live in a goofy real estate market and are willing to take big chances on your money."
I would have to agree that the 5.2% rental rate is low - should be closer in the 8-10% range - expecially when you take into account agency fees.

So here is another analysis. It is called break even analysis - When does the cost of renting equal the cost of owing - it is at $2,553/mo of renting.

I would still come down on the side of owning

Assumptions







1. A house physically equal in either scenario




2. Owning and Renting in the same location





3. Utilities the same under both assumptions




4. For 10 year analysis - rent increases 2% per year - apx $50 - 60/mo






















300,000 Paid off house

















Owning Calculations





30,000 Opportunity Cost 10.0%





3,000 Property Taxes 1.0%





1,500 Home Ins







4,500 HOA/Repairs 1.5%





39,000 Total Expense Of Owning





6,000 Avg Annual Growth Rate 2.000%





33,000 Net Cost of Owning






2,750 Avg. Monthly Cost Of Owning


























Cost of Renting - For One Year





2,553 Monthly Cost of Renting





30,636 Annual Cost of Renting
















For One Year






2,364 Incremental cost of Renting Vs Owing




197 Incremental cost of Renting Vs Owning















Ten Year Analysis






330,000 Net Cost of Owning






330,092 Net cost of Renting






92 Higher cost of renting






9 Avg higher cost of renting/year
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:21 PM   #38
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Dex, to be fair, in her blog the $3250 rental house is totally different, and much, much nicer. She uses $1300 as the rental figure for the same $300,000 house.

Maybe that's possible in some markets, but I know for sure you can't rent a $300K house for $1300 in mine.
You could here, but you couldn't get an occupancy permit as there would be a hole in the roof and rats running around in the backyard.

Ha
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:32 PM   #39
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Wow, people, have I jumped into a pool of women-eating sharks?
As a female relative newbie, I would say defiinitely not.
What you have jumped into is a very big pond, and you aren't necessarily the biggest fish.
Some of these people have enormous egos, and some have enormous IQs, and some have enormous nest eggs, and many have all three.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #40
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You could here, but you couldn't get an occupancy permit as there would be a hole in the roof and rats running around in the backyard.
$1300/mo would get you a $600,000 waterfront cottage in my area.
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