Question for the expats

[MichaelB]

My time in South America included two complete economic cycles of boom-bust. In US$ terms, prices and income were low but they both increased substantially in local currency - until the economy busted, a major recession followed and local currency lost most of its value, along with one’s savings. Sort of a rich-poor-rich-poor cycle.

Emerging countries, where most expats go to live, are in a boom cycle right now. Local currencies have appreciated and the value of the US$ (and Euro) is low – meaning the cost of living, expressed in US$ terms, is higher than ever. My question is, what are expats doing? Are you moving your assets into local currency and local bank deposits paying much higher interest rates? Or keeping your money in US$ or Euros, lowering your standard of living, but keeping your funds safe? Or do you have a different approach?

I imagine some folks thinking about relocating abroad are asking this question, as are others already facing this. Hopefully some will share their experiences.

 

[Lancelot]

Nine years in Thailand and 98% of my net worth remains in the USA.

Had I transfered more funds, I would have enjoyed a rise in USD terms due to the rising strength of the Thai Baht...

 

[FIREd]

Most of my income-producing (financial) assets are in the US while most of my non-income producing (real estate) assets remain in Europe.

 

[DangerMouse]

We have most of our cash in Australia in the bank earning 7%. We also have investments in the UK in Sterling plus others in the US. For us it was a lot to do with us not really knowing where we would end up and hedging our bets. Our funds did end up in this distribution pattern in part because these are the 3 countries we have been moving between the last 16 years.

 

[lovinglife1]

Kept as much salary as possible in India investing in one year CDs paying 10 to 11%, greatly offsetting the exchange movement. Had cola in Japan with no investments.

 

[traineeinvestor]

Nearly 20 years in Hong Kong.

It took me a few cycles to get used to the boom-bust cycles and learning to throw money at the market when its all doom and gloom. Buying a home in the local market has (so far) been a good move.

Since I anticipate being here long term, most of my/our assets are invested locally (greater China) with smaller allocations to Aus/NZ where I expect to spend reasonable amounts of time after retirement.

I put very little directly into the US because of the 30% withholding taxes and the need to pay an accounting firm to amend my tax retruns.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Currently have about 2 years living expenses in Thai baht. I came to Thailand 18 months ago knowing about the currency flucuations relative to the dollar. I've transferred far more than needed for short term expenses, timing the market and making transfers when the dollar was stronger. All my equity investments are in US mutual funds.

The British pound has fallen farther than the dollar against the baht in the last five years. Many British pensioners in Thailand have involuntarily led the way to establishing expat communities in the country's Isaan region where the cost of living is much lower.

 

[nun]

When I move to the UK I'll keep my cash in a UK bank account and the UK equivalent of CDs. I'll keep my mutual fund investments in the US because a lot of them are in retirement accounts and also because of the PFIC tax laws that make it a bad idea for US citizens to hold foreign mutual funds. I could buy individual foreign stocks, but I hate doing all the accounting that requires.

 

[Queenie]

My pension is in Euro and deposited in my bank in Europe. 98% of my investments are here with VG in the US. I just transfer across to the US whenever I need funds here. I only own real estate in Italy only.

Queenie

 

[Surewhitey]

I'm new to this game, but I'll throw out what I'm thinking. My largest expenses will be housing & utilities & food. I'm pretty sure the peso is the way to go on payment, so I'll withdraw / transfer $$ to pesos when the USD is higher and pay for most things in pesos.

I'll look into opening an account there in the future and also into the CD equivalent, but I'll keep most in the states, investing in stocks, cd's & mm's. I just want to average 4% after inflation in a perfect world as we are still younguns...

 

[Alan]

I have a UK bank account and savings account into which my UK pensions and UK SS will go. (I have been receiving one of the UK pensions for 5 years now, the other will start at age 65).

All our retirement investments and US pensions are in accounts in the USA. I transfer money back and forth when needed.

 

[MichaelB]

Good feedback so far. When we lived overseas it was during my working years and my income was in local currency, so it tracked inflation. US taxes were an issue when the local currency strengthened because my tax liability grew but my real salary did not.

My bigger issues came when we began to accumulate real savings via deferred income and the local version of an IRA which I had to leave in local currency. It was painful and stressful to see it lose value.

Now, however, my friends in Brazil and Venezuela (just as examples) are seeing their currencies heavily appreciated and local interest rates sky high. In the past this led people to bring assets back to local currency - and then lose badly. It is very much like the stock market. Is this time different?

Those folks now in Asia and Latin America right now, are you keeping your assets in local currency or some $$/Euro combination?

 

[MichaelB]

Nearly 20 years in Hong Kong.

It took me a few cycles to get used to the boom-bust cycles and learning to throw money at the market when its all doom and gloom. Buying a home in the local market has (so far) been a good move.

Since I anticipate being here long term, most of my/our assets are invested locally (greater China) with smaller allocations to Aus/NZ where I expect to spend reasonable amounts of time after retirement.

I put very little directly into the US because of the 30% withholding taxes and the need to pay an accounting firm to amend my tax retruns.

You've already been there 20 years but you anticipate being there long term? I'd say you've been there long term and plan to make it a lifetime

A few cycles - that's what happened to us. Now, from my vantage point in the US, it is easier to see the boom bust there - and the bargains. I remember when currency controls were announced in the early 90's we went out and spent a bundle buying things we normally wouldn't, but taking advantage of prices that would soon adjust upwards by 2x or 3x, which they did. In retrospect, we didn't buy nearly enough, although at the time we were horrified at our spending.

 

[NYEXPAT]

i live in a dual currency economy and most people have a Dollar account and Sole account. The same with CD's although higher interest is paid in the local currency. Real estate is the same although in the city most transactions are in Dollars. Rent is the major expense in most retiree budgets and until recently was (on higher end rentals) paid in Dollars as it was common for Peruvians to transfer this money to the states for safety. This provided the opportunity for renters to offer to pay a year in advance (in Dollars) and negotiate a discount while avoiding the debasement of the USD.

 

[nun]

When I'm in the UK I'll pay my UK state pension and US social security into my UK bank account and use those for the majority of my expenses. As I'll be resident in the UK they'll be no US tax on the social security. All the rest of the investments and retirement funds will be left in the USA to simplify taxes.

I'm interested as to how people handle their offshore investments and deal with all the PFIC and FBAR issues. Do you pay for an accountant or fill out the forms yourself.

 

[kcowan]

We keep all our wealth in Canada. We withdraw living expenses in pesos via ATMs in PV and transfer $8k-$10k into our peso account annually for covering automatic utility payments and the occasional check.

 

[Alan]

I'm interested as to how people handle their offshore investments and deal with all the PFIC and FBAR issues. Do you pay for an accountant or fill out the forms yourself.

I only have a bank savings account in the UK and keep the total below the threshold of $10k to have such issues. Last tax year year we did exceed the $10k reporting threshold due to inheritances and I completed the FBAR form and mailed it in myself. Turbotax prompted me to do so.

 

[FIREd]

I only have a bank savings account in the UK and keep the total below the threshold of $10k to have such issues. Last tax year year we did exceed the $10k reporting threshold due to inheritances and I completed the FBAR form and mailed it in myself. Turbotax prompted me to do so.

Same here. I only have a checking account and a savings account in Europe, which I report to the Treasury every year. No other investment except real estate.

 

[nun]

I only have a bank savings account in the UK and keep the total below the threshold of $10k to have such issues. Last tax year year we did exceed the $10k reporting threshold due to inheritances and I completed the FBAR form and mailed it in myself. Turbotax prompted me to do so.

I'll probably have more than $10k in the UK as I want enough cash in UK pounds to cover a few years of expenses so I'll just send in the FBAR, but no other investments as they make life too complicated!

 

[kevink]

Can only speak to Mexico where we kept a few thousand dollars in the Mexican equivalent of treasuries called cetes and otherwise did the ATM thing like Keith. Peso exchange rate during the past couple of years has ranged from just under 11 to over 15 to the $. Mexico IMO is a special case because its economy is more than 70% tied to the U.S. and I don't see than changing anytime soon. With any other expat destination I'd be seriously worried about potential severe loss of purchasing power w. dollar denominated assets, but like many other expat there don't see much likelihood of a peso much under 11 to the $ for any length of time as long as foreign remittances, U.S. tourism and U.S. purchases of the lucrative products of the drug cartels keep them afloat down there.

 

[Surewhitey]

Can only speak to Mexico where we kept a few thousand dollars in the Mexican equivalent of treasuries called cetes and otherwise did the ATM thing like Keith. Peso exchange rate during the past couple of years has ranged from just under 11 to over 15 to the $. Mexico IMO is a special case because its economy is more than 70% tied to the U.S. and I don't see than changing anytime soon. With any other expat destination I'd be seriously worried about potential severe loss of purchasing power w. dollar denominated assets, but like many other expat there don't see much likelihood of a peso much under 11 to the $ for any length of time as long as foreign remittances, U.S. tourism and U.S. purchases of the lucrative products of the drug cartels keep them afloat down there.

Kevin,
What has been your best source of info on living in Mexico.
Thanks,
s

 

[Alan]

I'll probably have more than $10k in the UK as I want enough cash in UK pounds to cover a few years of expenses so I'll just send in the FBAR, but no other investments as they make life too complicated!

The FBAR form is simple enough to complete. I'll be filing another one for tax year 2011.

 

[MichaelB]

i live in a dual currency economy and most people have a Dollar account and Sole account. The same with CD's although higher interest is paid in the local currency. Real estate is the same although in the city most transactions are in Dollars. Rent is the major expense in most retiree budgets and until recently was (on higher end rentals) paid in Dollars as it was common for Peruvians to transfer this money to the states for safety. This provided the opportunity for renters to offer to pay a year in advance (in Dollars) and negotiate a discount while avoiding the debasement of the USD.

I imagine the inflation rate for dollar based services, like rent, must be pretty high.

 

[nun]

I'm most interested in how people deal with their taxes as becoming an expat makes things complicated. Tax planning is one of the trickiest aspects of becoming a US expat. Obviously everyone has to file a 1040 etc, but your country of residence will also want you to comply with their laws. Do most people file on their own or employ accountants?

 

[kevink]

Kevin,
What has been your best source of info on living in Mexico.
Thanks,
s

Lots of good info out there. I'd start with the Kaderli's web site and ebook (at Retire Early Lifestyle. Then there are web boards for specific areas: check out the forums at chapala.com and if interested in San Miguel do a search for "Falling in Love with San Miguel" where there's a great forum (and an eponymous book well worth reading).