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Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-08-2007, 06:53 PM   #1
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Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

I'm gearing up to put my condo on the market FSBO and have some questions that I'm sure the knowledgeable folks here can chime in on. This is the first time I've sold real estate FSBO or otherwise. I've read the Nolo press California FSBO book, and I've already read nord's excellent FSBO post at:

http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...2144#msg142144

A little background.

Iím selling my 2Br/2Ba condo about a half hour south of San Francisco, on the north end of what people consider Silicon Valley. It's part of a condo complex with 400+ other similar units, and about half have exactly the same floorplan, so it's not hard finding comparable sales. Zillow gives the value as $546k, and there are two with the same floorplan on the market right now, offered at $575k and $565k, and from what I've seen they are having trouble selling... one remarked that nobody was showing up for the open home and the other has been on MLS for 60+ days. My title company gave me a list of comparables, and the most recent sales with the same floorplan were:

9/29/06 $615k
9/22/06 $558k
8/18/06 $555k
8/14/06 $600k
8/07/06 $548k
7/18/06 $600k
6/30/06 $564k

I'm planning on offering the 3% buyer's agent fee. I don't need a super fast sale since I'm single and FIRE, but I'd like to get it sold before the spring/summer rush subsides. I'm also concerned that values may decline if I don't sell quick. I'm going to get it on the market before April and try to price it to make sure it sells before the fall season. Ideally I'd like to have it sold quicker because I'm finding it boring living in the suburbs as a single person without a job holding me hereÖ Iím planning on renting in San Francisco when I sell.

One main attraction of this location is that many units have views of a beautiful undeveloped canyon; you can see hills miles away and you can't see any manmade structures. I think I have an advantage here in that at least one of other units on the market has the canyon view blocked completely by close trees, while my view of the canyon isn't blocked (although there are trees growing at a rate which might largely block the view in a few years). I also think my condo is in better shape than average; I've upgraded all the ceiling lighting to halogen, upgraded most plumbing fixtures, upgraded tile floors, removed original tacky 70's decor, and it generally looks modern, except the kitchen which is clean but a bit dated looking.

My decision/questions are:

1. How to price it. I'm thinking to price a bit higher than the other inferior units that are on the market now. But the fact that those others haven't sold makes me wonder... is it just the slow winter season or are they overpriced. How would you price it?

2. How to market it. I'll definitely create a detailed website with floorplan, and advertise on craigslist every week or so. I'm planning on doing open homes, advertised on craigslist and in the SF Chronicle Sunday open homes.
The question is whether to pay someone to get it on MLS or not. I'm thinking that because this is Silicon Valley where everyone looks for things on the craigslist anyway, that MLS might not be that necessary. Maybe I'll put it on ebay too.

3. Handling the forms. I was able to wrangle disclosure forms, a purchase contract, and a counteroffer form from the real estate agent who sold me the place. They are the forms the local realtors use, developed by the California Association of Realtors and customized by PRDS for the Silicon Valley market. But there are a whole raft of minor forms that my real estate agent couldn't give me because they had the Coldwell Banker logo on them... I am wondering how important those are, or can I just use the ones out of the Nolo CA FSBO book if needed. My guess is that the title company will provide most of the minor forms for closing (e.g. "Notice of supplemental property tax bill", "Public Schools Disclosure"), right?
And I'm thinking I need a real estate attorney to make sure I donít do anything stupid while filling in the forms right?


4. Getting the place ready to sell. I think I need to order a pest inspection, contractor inspection, and natural hazard report to have available for serious buyers. The wall to wall beige carpeting is clean but 10 years old. It shows a little fraying at the edges and some wear patterns. Iím thinking itís not worth replacing the carpetÖ better to let the buyer decide what they want, and I can offer a credit if they want. The popcorn ceilings are known to have a little asbestos in them, and about half the units Iíve seen on the market have paid $5k or so to have them removed and flattened. This is California after all where almost every commercial building has a sign saying ďThis building contains chemicals that may give you cancerĒ. My feeling is that itís not an issue if you donít disturb them, so I just covered the ceilings with plywood in the closets, but I wonder if this is going to turn buyers off. Reading Nordsís post helped to clarify for me that I think my target buyer is a sophisticated person who will make whatever improvements they want themselves, so Iím thinking Iíll just leave the popcorn ceilings in place. I think itís not worth ordering an appraisal since there are so many comparables and I probably have a better idea of the differences among units than the appraiser.

Comments? Suggestions?
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-08-2007, 07:54 PM   #2
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

When collecting comments and suggestions, keep in mind that real estate sales are governed by state and local law and custom in your particular area plays a large part.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-08-2007, 08:37 PM   #3
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by free4now
1. How to price it. I'm thinking to price a bit higher than the other inferior units that are on the market now. But the fact that those others haven't sold makes me wonder... is it just the slow winter season or are they overpriced. How would you price it?
Can you simply walk through the other units to see what condition they're in, and what level of updates? Do they offer any open houses, or would the owners know who you are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by free4now
2. How to market it. I'll definitely create a detailed website with floorplan, and advertise on craigslist every week or so. I'm planning on doing open homes, advertised on craigslist and in the SF Chronicle Sunday open homes.
The question is whether to pay someone to get it on MLS or not. I'm thinking that because this is Silicon Valley where everyone looks for things on the craigslist anyway, that MLS might not be that necessary. Maybe I'll put it on ebay too.
Well, since you're offering the buyer's agent a fee, you might as well find out what it would cost to list it on the MLS, since I'd imagine that most buyer's agents would use that as a primary resource. Think of it this way as well: If you sell it for, say, $500k, that's equal to $2,500 PER MONTH in interest @ 6.00% (see Pen Fed's current 7-year offer). Sure, you're not a hurry to sell....but if you are going to sell it, why not ask at the top end of the range on your MLS listing (where you'll snag the attention of agents with your 3% buyer's commission), and possibly ask a few thousand less on craigslist? Or, start out higher with the same price on Craigslist/MLS, then let your MLS listing expire and drop the price.


Quote:
Originally Posted by free4now

The popcorn ceilings are known to have a little asbestos in them, and about half the units Iíve seen on the market have paid $5k or so to have them removed and flattened. This is California after all where almost every commercial building has a sign saying ďThis building contains chemicals that may give you cancerĒ.
While California is cancer-crazy with signs, I, for one, would be VERY wary of anything that said it contains asbestos. Granted, your local market/state may be different...but be prepared to offer potential buyers a way to have the condo abated for them before they move in, if it would entice them.

Good luck!
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-08-2007, 09:28 PM   #4
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Try craigslist for a while. Create a take-home packet for anybody who sees the place, and put both the seller's disclosure and a term sheet in the packet.

Do a lot of the existing residents commute from one or two large employers? If so, call up those companies and see if you can list on their intranet or something.

If you haven't it sold it within a month, go with one of the fixed-fee MLS guys. You'll get much better exposure once you're in the MLS. Make sure you're listed by April or May.

Consider using a real estate lawyer since this is a high-dollar transaction, and a screw-up could hurt.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-08-2007, 10:20 PM   #5
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

This is an uninformed and uneducated post, since I live in Canada. Here, if you FSBO, it is customary to use a lawyer to handle the transaction. If you shop around, it's not very expensive. We sold (for $135K) and bought (for $190K) in 1998, legal fees < 1K total on both. Buyer also uses his own lawyer but he also pays.

Good news? You know what you have to disclose, forms are usually/hopefully filled out properly and nothing bad is likely to happen. If it does it may be covered by lawyers malpractise insurance or law society if fraud by lawyer. I'd rather pay a lawyer than a real estate agent.

Good luck.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 02:09 AM   #6
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds
Can you simply walk through the other units to see what condition they're in, and what level of updates? Do they offer any open houses, or would the owners know who you are?
Yep, I've walked through one of the other units and I'm waiting for an open house on the other. The one I walked through was being sold by an absentee landlord FSBO. Because it was empty, I noticed a few things that looked really cheesy: They cheaped out on the new carpeting... very low quality and visible seams everywhere. And there were very few upgrades to the original 1970's amenities. But it was freshly painted and clean.

Quote:
Well, since you're offering the buyer's agent a fee, you might as well find out what it would cost to list it on the MLS, since I'd imagine that most buyer's agents would use that as a primary resource. Think of it this way as well: If you sell it for, say, $500k, that's equal to $2,500 PER MONTH in interest @ 6.00% (see Pen Fed's current 7-year offer). Sure, you're not a hurry to sell....but if you are going to sell it, why not ask at the top end of the range on your MLS listing (where you'll snag the attention of agents with your 3% buyer's commission), and possibly ask a few thousand less on craigslist?
My plan would be to set my asking price to what I'd demand from someone who brought a 3% agent. I think that any smart FSBO buyer without an agent would realize that if they didn't bring an agent they would be able to talk me down by something approaching 3%. I wouldn't want to advertise different asking prices in different locations because the electronic world is too small to assume they wouldn't find out. I wouldn't want the agent buyer to see my lower craigslist price that wasn't intended for agents.

I think offering 3% to an agent is a signal that I'm not one of the greedy FSBO'ers who won't budge because they are waiting for a sucker to overpay.


Quote:
While California is cancer-crazy with signs, I, for one, would be VERY wary of anything that said it contains asbestos. Granted, your local market/state may be different...but be prepared to offer potential buyers a way to have the condo abated for them before they move in, if it would entice them.
Good reminder... I'll get the contact info and price for a recommended asbestos abatement company to have ready.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 02:13 AM   #7
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
Do a lot of the existing residents commute from one or two large employers? If so, call up those companies and see if you can list on their intranet or something.
Great idea... my old employer is one of the biggest in the area and I can probably get someone back there to post on the intranet.

Quote:
If you haven't it sold it within a month, go with one of the fixed-fee MLS guys. You'll get much better exposure once you're in the MLS. Make sure you're listed by April or May.
Yep, that's pretty much what I'm thinking: list it for a few weeks to a month on my own, and then go MLS if it isn't selling.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 02:15 AM   #8
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by kumquat
I'd rather pay a lawyer than a real estate agent.
My sentiments exactly. It mystifies me that so many people feel they need a real estate agent to "make sure everything's legal".
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 03:49 AM   #9
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Is there a NOLO book that has all the special CA requirements? When I sold my rental home in Sacto two years ago, I was amazed by all the stuff that had to be done to meet local and/or state requirements. Mellow-Roos was a new term to me. Tons of different forms. Very different than the one page purchase contract I used here in farm country.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 08:28 AM   #10
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Another place to post the details is at www.fsbo.com. You can get a 9 month listing for $100 or less.

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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 09:43 AM   #11
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

The only couple of comments I'll throw in are that I've usually avoided FSBO's because the seller rarely passes along any cost savings to me as the buyer. Given that, i've seen no reason to deal with a potentially emotional amateur seller unless they had a very unique and unusual property.

The other is that in chats with some agents and some comments from other realtors here, I'm gathering the opinion that buyers agents quite deliberately avoid fsbo's and properties being sold by el cheapo sellers agents, or properties listed with a lower than 3% buyers agent fee.

Which I think kind of stinks, but its a well paid monopoly thats being threatened by the internet.

My last two homes I found on my own on the internet through a search site, and the last home I sold was picked up by the buyer the same way. The agents hadnt shown or mentioned the properties, even though they'd been on the market a while. All under 3% buyers agent fees.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 09:45 AM   #12
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by kumquat
This is an uninformed and uneducated post, since I live in Canada. Here, if you FSBO, it is customary to use a lawyer to handle the transaction. If you shop around, it's not very expensive. We sold (for $135K) and bought (for $190K) in 1998, legal fees < 1K total on both. Buyer also uses his own lawyer but he also pays.

Good news? You know what you have to disclose, forms are usually/hopefully filled out properly and nothing bad is likely to happen. If it does it may be covered by lawyers malpractise insurance or law society if fraud by lawyer. I'd rather pay a lawyer than a real estate agent.
I'm not sure I see why anybody's post was uninformed or uneducated since they were talking about California, not Canada (unless I misread something....possible...).

In Canada where I've purchased or sold real estate (Yukon and BC), it's customary to use a lawyer for conveyance even if you use a realtor. IIR, it was about $400 when we bought our house.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 10:19 AM   #13
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Price - $550-560k. Any higher and it sits just like the others. The view will help move it quicker; put a price on the view and it sits like the others.

Upgrades - skip'em sounds like you're already a cut above the competition. Maybe steam clean the rugs ... but I wouldn't waste time/$$ replacing anything.

Lawyer - no need; anybody closing 1/2 million dollar property will have a bank approved attorney who will make sure the closing goes smoothly. Pay thier attorney ($100) to register the deed.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 10:23 AM   #14
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

As a buyer in that price range, I would not be interested in your condo if there were others equally good in the same price range that were listed by realtors. I think my attitude is typical. Buyers are in the driver's seat in this market and they want to do as little of the work as possible; hence, they will go with a realtor listing and let them take care of everything.

Also, I would be SO TURNED OFF if I discovered asbestos in a closet that had been covered up by plywood. This discovery would make me wonder what else the buyer was hiding. Sorry to be so critical, but I have been around the block having purchased five homes in my life and been burned a couple of times. I think buyers in that price range, even if it's N. Calif,are quite demanding.

Good luck!
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 10:36 AM   #15
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe
(...) I would not be interested in your condo if there were others equally good in the same price range that were listed by realtors.
Ditto. I have never had much interest in FSBO's. One disadvantage of going FSBO is the fact that some people like Oldbabe and me just aren't likely to look at a FSBO.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 11:36 AM   #16
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosco
I'm not sure I see why anybody's post was uninformed or uneducated since they were talking about California, not Canada (unless I misread something....possible...).

In Canada where I've purchased or sold real estate (Yukon and BC), it's customary to use a lawyer for conveyance even if you use a realtor. IIR, it was about $400 when we bought our house.
I was refering to MY comments as uninformed and uneducated, not to OP's. Sorry if I confused anyone.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 11:50 AM   #17
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Once you have it presentable you could try out "Make Me Move" on Zillow.

My daughter has purchased two SFDs in your area. One of her expectations is that the home inspection is done BEFORE offering it for sale, it is on the dining room table for prospective purchasers to review. Since it is a condo have a copy of all the condo legal information, the last annual meeting and the last 4-5 meetings available. If there is a reserve report have that too. Make it easy for the potential buyer.

I agree with others that you should visit every similar unit for sale in your development to see what your potential competition is doing. Then look at 2 bedroom units of similar age in the area that you would consider to me in the same RE market. Take notes about their +/- , marketing efforts, maybe even take pictures of staging. You need to know what 'presentable' looks like in your community.

Frankly I would consider a discount broker like Redfin. You want your unit on MLS and you want a lock box (IMHO). If the discount broker doesn't want to spend the effort to market your place on the free spots, and you otherwise like the broker, offer to do that yourself. Warning, you may not be able to use the _same_ photos taken for the MLS website because of trademark issues, so be home when the MLS photos are taken and take similar photos with your own camera.

If you don't remove the popcorn before selling the property get a couple bids for that work and include them with the other condo documents.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 12:32 PM   #18
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

I would normally agree with the anti-FSBO arguments, but I think a condo in a large development is a special case. It's basically a commodity. Solid comps are easy to obtain. Give the FSBO option a whirl, and if you get no bites, then try the traditional expensive route.

And, FWIW, Realtors(TM) will try to blacklist you if you deviate at all from their monopolistic 6% route. That goes for the fixed-fee MLS, Redfin, etc.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 01:51 PM   #19
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

6% realtor fee is robbery (especially on a 1/2 million dollar condo) ... last 2 homes I sold were for a 4.5% realtor fee. And they would have taken 4% if it sold "in-house" i.e. no buyer broker.

3% to a buyer broker is very generous ... plan to make'em "work" for it! Draw up the P&S, disclosures and keep the buyer to the inspection, financeing and closing dates.
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA
Old 02-09-2007, 01:56 PM   #20
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Re: Questions on Selling FSBO condo in Northern CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryan
3% to a buyer broker is very generous ... plan to make'em "work" for it!
Full-price offer, closing date as originally agreed to, penalties for delays or failures...

I especially like your confidence in using Craigslist (at its epicenter) instead of MLS. I think it's only a matter of months before Google or Craigslist v2.0 supplants the MLS, and if MLS was a publicly-listed stock then I'd be shorting it.

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