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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 03:51 AM   #1
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Hello SWR. I have been flogged mercilessly for
suggesting that you should take all you can get, mostly because of my rugged individualist/Ayn Rand
philosophies. Still, I would like to join the "gravy train"
and suspect that we would qualify for "stuff".

I did look into "home heating" assistance last fall.
Filled out the application and sat for an interview.
I was told that they did not care if you won the lottery,
they were only interested in your last 30-60 days income. That was good as I did not have any during that period. About a month later I had a phone call
from someone who wanted a whole bunch of personal
information. When she started asking me about
"previous employer's" phone numbers I withdrew my
application. Probably cost us some money, but I didn't
want them calling up my former country club associates
and letting them know we were applying for aid.
Foolish pride!

JG
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 05:35 AM   #2
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:
Food Stamps would be good/nice in the USA , as would Cheap phones and Utilities. Would they give us this if we have a $400k home and $1.1m in Cash??
.....
We have both paid into the systems in BOTH countries for about 15 - 16 years in each of them, and will not qualify for any SS from either that is worth anything, so I do not feel I am taking advantage of the System(s) if I get a few bucks back.

SWR
People like you make me sick.
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 06:32 AM   #3
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:

People like you make me sick.

Sorry you feel that way, but you elect government officials every 4 years (assuming US), that get away with doing a lot worse!!!

Besides we have not done it yet, I was just enquiring. As in the previous post, it may prove too intrusive.

Quite frankly the attitude you are demonstrating annoys me also, not to the point of regurgitation, (as I have some control of my bodily functions), who make opinions before they evaluate the whole story. If you check out previous posts, on this site, it appears to be common with ER and regular retirees.

So you are happy to let the government destroy SS after we have paid so much into it! That is OK, I suppose. If I had not paid so much into it I would not be looking to get something back. Being as if I left it to them by the time I am 65, I may get $20 a month. Not even the cost of a beer in 2019.



SWR

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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 06:38 AM   #4
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

I assume there are many who feel like Helen. To me,
if you are legally entitled, it would be foolish not to
take advantage. After all, very few turn down their
SS benefits, Medicare, tax deductions, etc. I don't see
the difference.

JG
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 08:07 AM   #5
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:
People like you make me sick.
Why? It doesn't sound like he is looking to break the law. He is just looking to get what he may be entitled to under the law.

I've got too much pride to beg any person or any government for help, but if the law allows people to get welfare of any kind, don't blame the person, blame the lawmakers.
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 09:04 AM   #6
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:
if the law allows people to get welfare of any kind, don't blame the person, blame the lawmakers.
Not sure I buy that, it's a little like saying a criminal isn't responsible for the violence because guns are legally available.
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 09:22 AM   #7
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Mr. Galt,

Am afraid to enter this discussion, as unlike you I have _thin_ skin.
But will put myself at risk...

Quote:
To me,
if you are legally entitled, it would be foolish not to
take advantage. After all, very few turn down their
SS benefits, Medicare, tax deductions, etc. I don't see
the difference.
But I think there is a difference. I'm not making a judgement (aloud) on what is wrong or right, but think that ss/medicare/deductions are very different from home heating or food stamp assistance.

The current intent for ss & medicare payments is to benefit all those eligible, even the wealthy, IMO. (even if original purpose was different.)

But the intent of food stamps or heating assistance is not the same... I haven't read the law, but don't you think they are inteded as a last resort for those in desperate need?

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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 10:13 AM   #8
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:


Sorry you feel that way, but you elect government officials every 4 years (assuming US), that get away with doing a lot worse!!!

Besides we have not done it yet, I was just enquiring. As in the previous post, it may prove too intrusive.

Quite frankly the attitude you are demonstrating annoys me also, not to the point of regurgitation, (as I have some control of my bodily functions), *who make opinions before they evaluate the whole story. If you check out previous posts, on this site, it appears to be common with ER and regular retirees.

So you are happy to let the government destroy SS after we have paid so much into it! That is OK, I suppose. If I had not paid so much into it I would not be looking to get something back. Being as if I left it to them by the time I am 65, I may get $20 a month. Not even the cost of a beer in 2019.SWR
You must have pulled your original post. Good idea! Some sociologist whose name I don't remember said that Scandinavian socialism rests of the bedrock of Lutheranism, and when that has been dissipated, socialism will crash.

The problem is what would be called chiseling, and your post pretty well epitomizes chiseling.

Go back to your trimaran with your food stamps. They should help cover your bar bill.

One final thought. You and some others seem to feel that if it is not against the law, why not do it. This is a scary thought. One who lets the law and bureaucratic fiat determine his private morality has no private morality.

Mikey



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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 10:23 AM   #9
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Wow this is making me feel bad.

For 2 years I got the 'low income' rates for phone and electricity/gas because I fully qualified with the terms of those programs. Neither includes anything about assets, but only bottom line income from your tax returns.

Bearing in mind I am not 'taking money away' from the poor or the sick, just paying less to two monopolies. One of which participated in a scheme to defraud Californians which doubled our rates; the other that wanted to charge me $30 a month for a phone line I hardly ever used. Both of which have historically provided me with awful service.

Granted I'm not "poor" and the plans are geared to help the poor. Grant also that I didnt make up the rules around the programs.

The moment my income went over the limits I called both to put me back on the regular programs. They told me I was one of the very few people who have ever called to change back. Go figure.

Somehow getting a small break from two giant monopolies that have been ripping me off for decades didnt make me feel bad, particularly when I was following their rules to do it...

I wouldnt participate in any limited program where I'm taking money away from poor people, nor have I participated in any food stamp or welfare type programs funded by tax dollars.
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 10:56 AM   #10
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:

So you are happy to let the government destroy SS after we have paid so much into it! That is OK, I suppose. SWR
Your logic is baffling. *Because the idea of someone with $1.5 million in assets getting food stamps makes me sick, that some how equates with me being happy to let the government destroy SS ?

Here is my point:

There actually are people in this country who need the assistance of food stamps to be able to survive. *As a human being and a tax payer I want to help them get back on their feet. *The problem I have is when people who are able to fend for themselves choose instead to become parasites of the system at my and every other working stiffs expense.

-helen


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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 11:09 AM   #11
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:

Your logic is baffling. Because the idea of someone with $1.5 million in assets getting food stamps makes me sick, that some how equates with me being happy to let the government destroy SS ?

Here is my point:

There actually are people in this country who need the assistance of food stamps to be able to survive. As a human being and a tax payer I want to help them get back on their feet. The problem I have is when people who are able to fend for themselves choose instead to become parasites of the system at my and every other working stiffs expense.

-helen


Helen:

Don't get too sick. The point I am trying to make is that I will never see any significant SS. I was just using Food stamps as an example, I am curious what the criterior are. Is that so bad? The idea of being able to get something back for what I have paid is interesting in my eyes. And by the way I would not qualify for food stamps anyway.

But to get money off phone or electricity is a nice thought. My income is clearly low, if that is a criteria, I should at least look into it.

SWR
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 12:24 PM   #12
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:
Perhaps this plan is already being used?
Oh heck yeah. The government apparently has some program that offers tax breaks to companies who hire people off the long-term unemployed list. My company was doing (still does?) this; the trainer told me some of these people were outright hostile for being hired because they would rather have stayed unemployed.

Then there's the disability insurance fraud gambit. Seen plenty of those on TV: guy is collecting disability for back problems but private eye catches him on tape in a second job that involves lots of heavy lifting.
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 03:24 PM   #13
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:
For 2 years I got the 'low income' rates for phone and electricity/gas because I fully qualified with the terms of those programs. Neither includes anything about assets, but only bottom line income from your tax returns.

Bearing in mind I am not 'taking money away' from the poor or the sick, just paying less to two monopolies.
I'm glad I didn't make a judgement in my earlier post.

There again is a difference... taking advantage of situation with a monopoly company I see as different from, say, trying to get food stamps from tax dollars intened for poor.

Suppose you'd have to really investigate the policies to be certain your benefit caused absolutely no direct harm to low-income people. Might be splitting hairs.

One could say that each of us harm others every day, with action and inaction. Driving a car or buying a meal more expensive than nessesary both waste resources that could have been used to reduce the suffering of others. Not fighting to correct injustices makes us guilty. Nevermind the inaction of RE...
Deciding where to draw the line on what is or isn't OK sure isn't my job, and I'm not a saint myself.
I'm already a little sorry I entered this discussion, though my goal was just to point out a difference where John Galt said he saw none... He seems so honest in his posts, I wanted to address something that confused me.
Maybe it's just that I've never read Ann Rand and don't know what an objectivist is. :-/
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 04:07 PM   #14
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

SWR,

If you have paid into the SS system for 15-16 yrs, you will definitely receive alot more that $20.00 per month. If you are still living in the US, you should be receiving a yearly statement showing the amount that you will receive from SS. I agree that you will probably receive more from SS, than you have ever paid into it.

So many people do not purchase Long Term Care Insurance because they expect their state to pay for their nursing home care if they need it. Then you hear complaints that the government might take their home after they die, to help reimburse the Medicaid payments. I wonder if they think taxpayers should have to pay for their nursing home care and then they should be able to have their relatives inherit their money.

I am quite capable of paying for my own needs and do not want any government handouts either. As long as I am healthy and able to work, I will continue until I feel certain that my pension and savings will provide for me. I do not want anyone else to pay for my loafing!!!

Dreamer
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 04:16 PM   #15
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

HI Dreamer! Re. "I do not want anyone to pay for my loafing." Why not? The government extorts and
steals your money and you don't want it back?
I don't get it.

JG
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 04:46 PM   #16
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Unfortunately, there is a fair amount of abuse especially when it comes to food stamp. IMO, food stamps should only used to buy basic staples like rice, pasta, vegetables, chicken, pork etc. In NY, I see people buying sodas, pastry, smoked fish and expensive cold cuts to name a few. I also see well dressed people buying their food using food stamps.
But as another poster said, politicians are probably responsible for a lot more monetary obuse than some food stamp users.

MJ
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 04:53 PM   #17
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Well some people have no shame.
I am still working and really want to retire early.
But if I have to use food stamps, and beg for oil, I will just continue to work.
To each his own!
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-27-2005, 06:59 PM   #18
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:
Today at 7:33am, ShokWaveRider wrote:
Food Stamps would be good/nice in the USA , as would Cheap phones and Utilities. Would they give us this if we have a $400k home and $1.1m in Cash??
.....
We have both paid into the systems in BOTH countries for about 15 - 16 years in each of them, and will not qualify for any SS from either that is worth anything, so I do not feel I am taking advantage of the System(s) if I get a few bucks back.

SWR
All you have to do to apply for food stamps [1st step to getting them] is complete an application, substantiate all available income including investments with current statements, supply copies of all bank statements [they'll check], and be under the FPL [federal poverty limit]. Then comes your face-to-face interview and the waiting period. Not sure how you can be FIREd and still eligible. Quite sure that a family cannot have over 3k in liquid assets in the state of California. *
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-28-2005, 04:09 AM   #19
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

Quote:

All you have to do to apply for food stamps [1st step to getting them] is complete an application, substantiate all available income including investments with current statements, supply copies of all bank statements [they'll check], and be under the FPL [federal poverty limit]. Then comes your face-to-face interview and the waiting period. Not sure how you can be FIREd and still eligible. Quite sure that a family cannot have over 3k in liquid assets in the state of California.

This is exactly what I thought. The reason I brought it up in the first place is someone mentioned that certain benefits were available regardless of bank statements and net worth. I was questioning this in my own mind and hence the start of this post.

SWR
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?
Old 03-28-2005, 07:04 AM   #20
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Re: Getting Everything You can From The State?

GD-ER,

I just noticed your "head smacking penguin" avatar. What a hoot! Thanks. That made me a little less


Grumpy
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