RE (real estate) question - Page 2

SecondCor521 · 08-31-2006, 02:52 PM

Mach1,

I think there is a pretty vast difference between empty lots, existing homes, and new homes. Were you offering on "bare land" or a house or what?

2Cor521

Mach1 · 08-31-2006, 03:29 PM

2Cor521, they were improved lots in subdivision being developed.

SecondCor521 · 08-31-2006, 04:53 PM

Ah. We tried negotiating with the person building our last house on a lot for us. The builder and realtor just sort of said, "No, that's not done in this case." And it turns out it wasn't

2Cor521

perinova · 08-31-2006, 09:51 PM

Why pay more in this market? If there is an offer already, move away and wait. In case the previus buyer falls through (or is actually non existing) the agent will contact you and you may even be able to low ball.

One adecdote: I onced placed an offer on a house and the contract was in attorney review. Another buyer placed a higher offer than mine. Fortunately even pressured to do so I was wise not to put any money up to the last minute. ie I didn't order the inspection before the end of attorney review etc.
I may have been tempted to raise the bid. but I didn't have to pay my attorney up to signing either. I moved away...

jazz4cash · 09-01-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondCor521

All I mean is that I am not using a buyer's agent or having my own agent.* Basically I don't think it is worth it to have an agent represent me for the 3% cut they would take.* I would expect the seller to be willing to drop the price by the 3% they're not paying to my non-existent buyer's agent.* 2Cor521

You should consider getting an agent, buyer's or otherwise. I can think of no benefit to buyer not having an agent, preferably buyers agent. A buyer's agent could answer many of the questions you are posing here and give you good current and recent comparable sales/listings just by checking the MLs.

Think about the Math.....
if sales price is $100,000 and commission is 6%, seller pays $6000, and nets 94,000
if seller agrees to give you 3%, sales price is $97,000, seller STILL pays 6% (of 97K) which is $5820, and nets (97,000-5820=) 91180. Unless realtor agrees to pay out of the listing commission (unlikely), it wont work.

wabmester · 09-01-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz4cash

Think about the Math.....
if sales price is $100,000 and commission is 6%, seller pays $6000, and nets 94,000
if seller agrees to give you 3%, sales price is $97,000, seller STILL pays 6% (of 97K) which is $5820,* and nets (97,000-5820=) 91180.* Unless realtor agrees to pay out of the listing commission (unlikely), it wont work.

Huh? Doesn't the listing make the commission split clear? It's generally 3% to the listing agent and 3% to the "selling" agent (usually a buyer's agent). Listing agents don't like it when there's no buyer's agent since it means a little more work for the listing agent, but I don't think they expect to get a full 6%! In any case, the seller can negotiate the commission fees when they list, and agents will often be flexible about fees to close a deal.

jazz4cash · 09-02-2006, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab

Huh?* Doesn't the listing make the commission split clear?* *It's generally 3% to the listing agent and 3% to the "selling" agent (usually a buyer's agent).* * Listing agents don't like it when there's no buyer's agent since it means a little more work for the listing agent, but I don't think they expect to get a full 6%!* *In any case, the seller can negotiate the commission fees when they list, and agents will often be flexible about fees to close a deal.

Yes, the listing agreement does make it clear, but think about it, the only real tool the listing agent has is the MLS. Thier goal is to sell through another realtor. The split is actually between the two brokers involved. The broker with the listing wants to hang on to both sides if possible, sometimes called a "me and me" arrangement. You COULD, theoretically negotiate the commission up front, but this home is already listed and I'll bet it's a traditional broker split. Not sure where this listing is located, but wife and sister-in-law are realtors and thier brokers generally would not let them discount commisions unless asking price was way up in the upper reaches. Not sure what area of the country we are talking about, but here in DC area asking prices are being routinely reduced by 10% or more once they are on the market for 60 days or so. This is typical sort of data that a buyer's agent has ready access to.

yelnad · 09-02-2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab

Huh? Doesn't the listing make the commission split clear? It's generally 3% to the listing agent and 3% to the "selling" agent (usually a buyer's agent). Listing agents don't like it when there's no buyer's agent since it means a little more work for the listing agent, but I don't think they expect to get a full 6%! In any case, the seller can negotiate the commission fees when they list, and agents will often be flexible about fees to close a deal.

DH is a part time agent. Around here, the seller's agent pays the buyer's agent out of the 6%. If there is no buyer's agent, then the seller's agent keeps it all. DH splits his typical 3% with his broker, so he really gets 1.5%.

wabmester · 09-02-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelnad

DH is a part time agent. Around here, the seller's agent pays the buyer's agent out of the 6%. If there is no buyer's agent, then the seller's agent keeps it all.* DH splits his typical 3% with his broker, so he really gets 1.5%.

The strategy for the buyer here appears to be "if I don't have a buyer's agent, then I can get the seller to knock another 3% off, and he can negotiate the 6% fee with his listing agent down to 3%."

So, does that work in practice?

yelnad · 09-03-2006, 12:41 PM

Depending on the market, I think it would work if the buyer knows to ask.

perinova · 09-03-2006, 02:37 PM

By going wihtout an agent you can knock off 2% of ASP.

Imagine an offer without a buyers agent at 98% ASP and an offer at 100% of ASP with a buyers agent. Who will get the home?
Answer the seller agent will knock off his commission by 2%, and the 98% ASP offer will get the house.

tryan · 09-03-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Are you serious? I the past 30 days, I have indirectly made two offers at 5% below asking price for two separate lots in different areas, both were declined!

Absolutely! ... "declined!" ... so what ! move on!

I'll guess those lots where not on the market "months". All the money is made on the buy. My crystal ball is too foggy to predict where prices will go in the future.

biophase · 09-04-2006, 03:29 AM

I think you are worrying too much about how much the realtor may or may not get paid.

Bottom line is what price is the house worth and what price are you willing to pay for it.

Come up with a number, put an offer in that will allow you to negotiate up to the price you want to pay for it.

If it doesn't happen, move on to the next house.

al_bundy · 09-04-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach1

Are you serious? I the past 30 days, I have indirectly made two offers at 5% below asking price for two separate lots in different areas, both were declined!

which means absolutely nothing

on one of the NJ housing bubble blogs they post MLS info and lately a bunch of houses have been selling for 20% under original listing price

honobob · 09-04-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biophase

I think you are worrying too much about how much the realtor may or may not get paid.

Ain't it the truth!* But then when the title and the mortgage company reams them for thousands in junk fees they'll happily sign the checks.* It seems the human nature is to tear our peers down.* I wish as much energy was spent getting the Hollywood mogul to take $4 for your movie ticket or negotiating a better price at the ballpark...oh wait,* we're paying to see professionals.* Maybe if we made teaching/nursing/sales a profession then we would feel more comfortable paying a "fair" wage.

astromeria · 09-04-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honobob

I wish as much energy was spent getting the Hollywood mogul to take $4 for your movie ticket

FYI, lots of actors, directors, producers, and agents make about as much as some studio execs--and there are many more of them. These so-called "moguls" are not as overpaid as many other corporate executives--do you also complain about the compensation of high tech CEOs when you buy a computer or software, pharma when you buy drugs, big oil at the pump, big auto? I remember the year my software company CEO made news for raking in $77 million one year just after my company's heyday (and they tried to get us worker bees to be priud of that fact

). My software startup CEO made a magazine cover (Forbes? Fortune?) for being worth a paper billion near our peak--but I think he realized only a few hundred million, what with our stock price going from $80 to ~$1/share, poor baby. Anyhoo, these days I'm more concerned with executives stealing from me as a shareholder. How much more would my XOM dividends be without fantastical CEO compensation (and golden parachutes)? We retired folks can pay $4 or less for movie tic at weekday matinees--and hardly anyone else in the theatre to disturb us

honobob · 09-04-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astromeria

We retired folks can pay $4 or less for movie tic at weekday matinees--and hardly anyone else in the theatre to disturb us*

I totally agree.* Unless YOU started the business or invented the product* YOU should not be making more than, say 15% more than the person one step below you and they should not be making more than 15%...on and on.

Matinees are at least $6.75 30* miles from San Fran unless you're at a bargain theater.

wabmester · 09-04-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biophase

I think you are worrying too much about how much the realtor may or may not get paid.

Yeah, people here are acting like a home purchase might be the biggest purchase of their lifetime or something!

Why would you want to save 3% on a $500K purchase (that's $15000, folks) when you could just reuse dryer sheets instead!?*

Let's face it.* *As home prices went up, real estate agents jobs became *easier* because of the mania.* *Does it make sense for agents to get an increasing fee (based on a percentage) as their job gets easier?* * The real estate agent percentage-based fee is absurd.* *It's time to kill it.

Of course, in a competitive market, a lot of discount agents have emerged.* *And, of course, in a monopoly controlled by the National Association of Realtors and the MLS, agents are doing whatever they can to make life hard for the discount agents.

Article

DOJ lawsuit against NAR

honobob · 09-04-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab

Yeah, people here are acting like a home purchase might be the biggest purchase of their lifetime or something!

Why would you want to save 3% on a $500K purchase (that's $15000, folks) when you could just reuse dryer sheets instead!?*

Let's face it.* *As home prices went up, real estate agents jobs became *easier* because of the mania.* *Does it make sense for agents to get an increasing fee (based on a percentage) as their job gets easier?* * The real estate agent percentage-based fee is absurd.* *It's time to kill it.

Article

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab

Huh? Doesn't the listing make the commission split clear? It's generally 3% to the listing agent and 3% to the "selling" agent (usually a buyer's agent). Listing agents don't like it when there's no buyer's agent since it means a little more work for the listing agent, but I don't think they expect to get a full 6%!

Wab, It was you that said the average person only holds property 6-8 years as your argument against buying and riding the ups and downs of the market.* So really you're only paying a few dollars more a month for a few years and when you sell the $15K will be dwarfed by the appreciation and the inflation factor.

And how did the boom make the realtors job easier?* From my understanding in the Bay area buyers were writing 20-30 offers to get an accepted one.* Sounds like alot of paperwork and back and forth and house showing to hopefully get a commission.

Speaking of which I can't imagine how

08-31-2006, 02:52 PM	#21
SecondCor521 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Boise Posts: 1,344	Re: RE (real estate) question Mach1, I think there is a pretty vast difference between empty lots, existing homes, and new homes. Were you offering on "bare land" or a house or what? 2Cor521 __________________ "At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.

08-31-2006, 03:29 PM	#22
Mach1 Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 65	Re: RE (real estate) question 2Cor521, they were improved lots in subdivision being developed. __________________ Dream as if you'll live forever.  Live as if you'll die today.

08-31-2006, 04:53 PM	#23
SecondCor521 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Boise Posts: 1,344	Re: RE (real estate) question Ah. We tried negotiating with the person building our last house on a lot for us. The builder and realtor just sort of said, "No, that's not done in this case." And it turns out it wasn't 2Cor521 __________________ "At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.

08-31-2006, 09:51 PM	#24
perinova Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 398	Re: RE (real estate) question Why pay more in this market? If there is an offer already, move away and wait. In case the previus buyer falls through (or is actually non existing) the agent will contact you and you may even be able to low ball. One adecdote: I onced placed an offer on a house and the contract was in attorney review. Another buyer placed a higher offer than mine. Fortunately even pressured to do so I was wise not to put any money up to the last minute. ie I didn't order the inspection before the end of attorney review etc. I may have been tempted to raise the bid. but I didn't have to pay my attorney up to signing either. I moved away...

09-03-2006, 12:41 PM	#30
yelnad Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 491	Re: RE (real estate) question Depending on the market, I think it would work if the buyer knows to ask. __________________ Yelnad --"What you're paying for is an education, not a room at the Sheraton,and sometimes that education is uncomfortable."- Jim Terhune, Dean of Student Affairs, Colgate University

09-03-2006, 02:37 PM	#31
perinova Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 398	Re: RE (real estate) question By going wihtout an agent you can knock off 2% of ASP. Imagine an offer without a buyers agent at 98% ASP and an offer at 100% of ASP with a buyers agent. Who will get the home? Answer the seller agent will knock off his commission by 2%, and the 98% ASP offer will get the house.

09-04-2006, 03:29 AM	#33
biophase Confused about dryer sheets Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4	Re: RE (real estate) question I think you are worrying too much about how much the realtor may or may not get paid. Bottom line is what price is the house worth and what price are you willing to pay for it. Come up with a number, put an offer in that will allow you to negotiate up to the price you want to pay for it. If it doesn't happen, move on to the next house. __________________ Live Learn Invest . com