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Old 10-23-2007, 07:33 AM   #161
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Angus Maddison.

But only for long winter nights when there is no football on cable - and you you actually think - economies of nations and civilations is worth worrying about.

And only after you've taken care of the serious things in life - like offense/defense in balanced index funds and a cable package with football!

Remember Bear Bryant's linebacker - agile, mobile and hostile.



heh heh heh - 'the three stocks' I buy next week to cut thru all this are
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:17 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Let me help you before you make a total fool of yourself. You must first know what consumerism means. Look it up, but simply put, it means people buying things they don't need. That can of Coke, 6 dollar coffee, the Iphone, a Hummer, that boat that sits in the driveway all summer, a big house full of junk that they can't afford. Americans are materialistic spenders and spending drives this economy. Other countries have different things driving their economies. Some under developed countries economies are still based on agriculture, some totally depend on tourism, some economies like China are driven by using cheap labor to manufacture goods for export, there are countries that prosper by providing financial services to other countries and of course can you guess what drives the economies of Arab oil producing and exporting countries? You are right if you you said oil exports. Now you're getting it. Not all economies are like ours.

What the hell else are economies based on? I hope this give you a little understanding so you don't appear to be so ignorant the next time you post.
I appreciate that you have a different opinion than some of the other regulars here. I am in my late 20s and have never even passed an Econ 101 class, but I am here to learn. So a variety of angles on these things is a good way to do so.

Perhaps you could use the preview button when you post and imagine that someone else had just said your words to you. They come off very condescending and it's detracting from the conversation.

I hope you don't leave, as the more opinions there are on this, the more opportunities there are for us newbies to pick up some good information.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:56 AM   #163
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Americans are materialistic spenders and spending drives this economy.
Agreed -- it's also multi-cultural and non-geographical, as seen today in other parts of the countries, such as Taipei(Taiwan), Hong Kong(China), Singapore, and most European countries. The virus is spreading.
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:17 AM   #164
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The funniest thing about it is that I am pretty sure Nords already has Razor on ignore, so this likely had the effect of throwing a meringue into a black hole.
mmmm--meringue....
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:33 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
I am pretty sure the term can have slightly different meanings depending on the context in which it is used...

Look it up... But "Don't Taze me Bro"
Consumerism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Consumerism is the equating of personal happiness with the purchasing of material possessions and consumption. consumerism can also refer to economic policies that place an emphasis on consumption, and, in an abstract sense, the belief that the free choice of consumers should dictate the economic structure of a society

Although consumerism is commonly associated with the Western world, it is multi-cultural and non-geographical, as seen today in Tokyo, Singapore, Jakarta, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Taipei, Tel Aviv, Bahrain, New Delhi and Dubai, for example. Consumerism, as in people purchasing goods or consuming materials in excess of their basic needs, is as old as the first civilizations (see Ancient Egypt, Babylon and Ancient Rome, for example). Since consumerism began, various individuals and groups have consciously sought an alternative lifestyle through simple living.
While consumerism is not a new phenomenon, it has only become widespread over the 20th century and particularly in recent decades, under the influence of neoliberal capitalism.


My apolgies to those offended, but I would like to point out that he started the nastiness. I was just returning fire. If someone disagrees with my opinion tell me why. I am very open minded. If I am attacked personally, I will respond accordingly.
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:49 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post

My apolgies to those offended, but I would like to point out that he started the nastiness. I was just returning fire. If someone disagrees with my opinion tell me why. I am very open minded. If I am attacked personally, I will respond accordingly.

This is how flame wars start and is not acceptable.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:00 PM   #167
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Trombone Al not long ago suggested that a book for reading called How to Win Friends and Influence People, written by Dale Carnegie way back in the 1930s.

The book includes these principles:
Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking:
  • "Avoid arguments."
  • "Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never tell someone they are wrong."
  • "If you're wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically."
  • "Begin in a friendly way."
  • "Start with questions the other person will answer yes to."
  • "Let the other person do the talking."
  • "Let the other person feel the idea is his/hers."
  • "Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view."
  • "Sympathize with the other person."
  • "Appeal to noble motives."
  • "Dramatize your ideas."
  • "Throw down a challenge."
Nine Ways to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment:
  • "Begin with praise and honest appreciation."
  • "Call attention to other people's mistakes indirectly."
  • "Talk about your own mistakes first."
  • "Ask questions instead of giving direct orders."
  • "Let the other person save face."
  • "Praise every improvement."
  • "Give them a fine reputation to live up to."
  • "Encourage them by making their faults seem easy to correct."
  • "Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest."
How to Win Friends and Influence People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My father would summarize the principle as "you get more bees with honey."

If your goal is to change minds, attack seldom works. Of course, I don't expect that we will avoid arguments, but many of us can work on our style.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:35 PM   #168
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This is how flame wars start and is not acceptable.

As I pointed out before Razor, attacks by the massive posters for anyone who thinks the market is going down are considered understandable, any retaliation is totally unacceptable. I believe a non-biased review would show Razor is correct, however the community enjoys the negative comments from the massive posters who cheer stocks on against any bears. This thread was littered with them prior to Razor's comments. They may claim they know more about the economy than anyone on TV and are smarter than the rest of us and bristle with negative comments when merely challenged and ask where you got your PHD. Any biting comments in retort though brings gasps from the crowd and are dealt with swiftly to reign you in line to be the most humble of bears.

Really quite humorous to follow the most predictable of conclusions. However despite that they do have very strong and valuable ideas, that I for sure would not have thought of. They just don't like to have to defend them much with logic or have the occasional flaws in the logic pointed out.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:43 PM   #169
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As I pointed out before Razor, attacks by the massive posters for anyone who thinks the market is going down are considered understandable, any retaliation is totally unacceptable. I believe a non-biased review would show Razor is correct, however the community enjoys the negative comments from the massive posters who cheer stocks on against any bears. This thread was littered with them prior to Razor's comments. They may claim they know more about the economy than anyone on TV and are smarter than the rest of us and bristle with negative comments when merely challenged and ask where you got your PHD. Any biting comments in retort though brings gasps from the crowd and are dealt with swiftly to reign you in line to be the most humble of bears.

Really quite humorous to follow the most predictable of conclusions. However despite that they do have very strong and valuable ideas, that I for sure would not have thought of. They just don't like to have to defend them much with logic or have the occasional flaws in the logic pointed out.
Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand and will behave.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:46 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Running_Man View Post
As I pointed out before Razor, attacks by the massive posters for anyone who thinks the market is going down are considered understandable, any retaliation is totally unacceptable. I believe a non-biased review would show Razor is correct, however the community enjoys the negative comments from the massive posters who cheer stocks on against any bears. This thread was littered with them prior to Razor's comments. They may claim they know more about the economy than anyone on TV and are smarter than the rest of us and bristle with negative comments when merely challenged and ask where you got your PHD. Any biting comments in retort though brings gasps from the crowd and are dealt with swiftly to reign you in line to be the most humble of bears.

Really quite humorous to follow the most predictable of conclusions. However despite that they do have very strong and valuable ideas, that I for sure would not have thought of. They just don't like to have to defend them much with logic or have the occasional flaws in the logic pointed out.
If you'd like to name names in public, please do. I am sure the mods will enjoy picking up the pieces from the resulting flame war. Or you can cry the wall of victimhood tears to yourself.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:50 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
My apolgies to those offended, but I would like to point out that he started the nastiness. I was just returning fire. If someone disagrees with my opinion tell me why. I am very open minded. If I am attacked personally, I will respond accordingly.
Thanks for taking the step back. Sometimes it is difficult to resist provocation, but for the sake of civil discourse, we must. I meant it yesterday when I said I hope you stay, because different opinions educate us all. But, as Martha points out, flame wars won't help any of us.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:54 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Running_Man View Post
As I pointed out before Razor, attacks by the massive posters for anyone who thinks the market is going down are considered understandable, any retaliation is totally unacceptable. I believe a non-biased review would show Razor is correct, however the community enjoys the negative comments from the massive posters who cheer stocks on against any bears. This thread was littered with them prior to Razor's comments. They may claim they know more about the economy than anyone on TV and are smarter than the rest of us and bristle with negative comments when merely challenged and ask where you got your PHD. Any biting comments in retort though brings gasps from the crowd and are dealt with swiftly to reign you in line to be the most humble of bears.

Really quite humorous to follow the most predictable of conclusions. However despite that they do have very strong and valuable ideas, that I for sure would not have thought of. They just don't like to have to defend them much with logic or have the occasional flaws in the logic pointed out.
There is some truth to what you say. That is why in my last post I said "many of us" need to work on our style. So, let's all take a deep breath and move on.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:55 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Running_Man View Post
As I pointed out before Razor, attacks by the massive posters for anyone who thinks the market is going down are considered understandable, any retaliation is totally unacceptable. I believe a non-biased review would show Razor is correct, however the community enjoys the negative comments from the massive posters who cheer stocks on against any bears. This thread was littered with them prior to Razor's comments. They may claim they know more about the economy than anyone on TV and are smarter than the rest of us and bristle with negative comments when merely challenged and ask where you got your PHD. Any biting comments in retort though brings gasps from the crowd and are dealt with swiftly to reign you in line to be the most humble of bears.

Really quite humorous to follow the most predictable of conclusions. However despite that they do have very strong and valuable ideas, that I for sure would not have thought of. They just don't like to have to defend them much with logic or have the occasional flaws in the logic pointed out.
I have no idea what the market will do, but I do know that I would appreciate seeing a reasoned discussion between those of the bull and bear persuasion. I don't like to see either side just sling mud. It's ugly and doesn't help my own education at all.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:09 PM   #174
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Totally agree with Running Man. Very well said!

It also seems that after the new guy is provoked we point the blame at them if they retaliate.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:05 PM   #175
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Totally agree with Running Man. Very well said!

It also seems that after the new guy is provoked we point the blame at them if they retaliate.
More so if their profession is on the "naughty list"
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:20 PM   #176
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Totally agree with Running Man. Very well said!

It also seems that after the new guy is provoked we point the blame at them if they retaliate.
This is group psychology 101. The main purpose of a group is to maintain the social structure of the group.

Almost anyone could describe the roles played by various posters here, and what taboos and perqs support those roles.

Rarely does anyone have the temerity to do this!

Ha
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:26 PM   #177
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I see it more as a selection mechanism. Or maybe a hazing. If you can tolerate the asshats here, you'll get along just fine.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:34 PM   #178
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Here's my take.

After several "things are much worse" posts, we were treated to:
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Have you been following the economy at all? Earnings are mediocre and don't have as big an impact as interest rates and FED policy anymore, the housing bust is becoming more and more relevant, ...
Not "I think the economy is a lot worse", not "I'm shifting my asset allocation to...", no links to studies or articles buttressing the expressed opinions, not even "in my opinion".

Instead, it's "Have you been following the economy at all?" with the implication that the poster is simply ignorant (not following the economy) if not perhaps actually stupid (not interpreting the symptoms correctly).

This board has as many relentless cheerleaders for their particular preferred asset allocations as there are permabears & Chicken Littles. I doubt we're going to change each other's minds with repeated reciprocated diatribes. (At least I haven't seen it happen yet.) Perhaps it'd be better to stick to links that support a perspective or for posters to discuss how they're positioning their portfolios to deal with whatever they see coming over the horizon.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:36 PM   #179
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Here's my take.

After several "things are much worse" posts, we were treated to:

Not "I think the economy is a lot worse", not "I'm shifting my asset allocation to...", no links to studies or articles buttressing the expressed opinions, not even "in my opinion".

Instead, it's "Have you been following the economy at all?" with the implication that the poster is simply ignorant (not following the economy) if not perhaps actually stupid (not interpreting the symptoms correctly).
What Nords said goes double for me.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:44 PM   #180
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When I first got on Usenet many years ago, I inadvertantly found myself in the middle of a flamewar, which was awful. Later, when it was discovered that I was a newbie, I was told that written discussion is more prone to misunderstandings than face-to-face discussion.

I was told that it is advisable to say "I think" or "it seems to me" rather than positioning myself as the Bearer of the Absolute Truth, so to speak. When discussing something touchy, it helps to cite your own experience and let the reader extrapolate from that, rather than defining the world or other people's experiences in a heavy handed way.

Now, I can't say that I am perfect in following this approach, as I am as opinionated as many (and more than some) and I forget. It's helpful to try, though, and prevents conflict.

Uh, I should say, "I THINK it is helpful to try...".... Oh well! I do try.
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