Reek of a scam

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by BellBarbara Note to self: stop reading how many husbands think divorcing is easier than figuring out how to make their wives feel included in financial decisions. Just wow. Super happy I never let my hub take it all over like he wanted. Second marriage, I insisted on my own investments and accounts. 11 years later we combined everything and do it all jointly. Sounds like your wife is bored since you say she is financially responsible normally.

Some have the opposite problem.... where DW does not want to know anything about financial decisions... except for spending money of course... I keep telling her she needs to know etc. etc.... and all she says is 'you take care of it'....


Then again, she has ZERO knowledge of investing... so in the end it is better that I do it....

[harley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellBarbara Note to self: stop reading how many husbands think divorcing is easier than figuring out how to make their wives feel included in financial decisions. Just wow. Super happy I never let my hub take it all over like he wanted. Second marriage, I insisted on my own investments and accounts. 11 years later we combined everything and do it all jointly. Sounds like your wife is bored since you say she is financially responsible normally.

Reading between the lines, sounds like mostly divorced guys going that route. Hard not to react when someone pokes that big festering wound.

[jon-nyc]

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Originally Posted by Travelwanted Wow, tough situation. A suggestion: tell her you are willing to be open-minded if you can run the investment by an attorney who has a background in this stuff. Yes, the attorney may be expensive, but if they are telling her to RUN AWAY, it will save you $$$$ and you don't have to be the bad guy.

Good suggestion.

[kcowan]

Sounds like a lot of good advice here. DW#1 wanted to spend too much time with her girlfriends. Often doing strange investments. Never large enough to break us but all ending up as failures.

I toughed it out for 10 years for the kids, then pulled the pin. All my friends said I was crazy and should have an affair instead. I ended up with DW#2 who had been abused mentally for years. We are still together 20 years later and our equity position is almost 50-50.

There is another life after your current one and I sense that your situation has gone beyond saving. I would suggest a marriage counselor before the financial advisor. Make sure it is not a rent-seeker but a true counselor. (Dr Phil?)

[PhrugalPhan]

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Originally Posted by BellBarbara Note to self: stop reading how many husbands think divorcing is easier than figuring out how to make their wives feel included in financial decisions. Just wow.

As pointed out, there are lots of wives that don't want to deal with finances. My ex was that way, she didn't even want to know math (I got to hear many times "I don't need to know math. Why should I care to learn?"). There are many men (and women too) that are forced to be the family "bad guy" regarding finances. Now my new GF is happy to learn finances from me and is very appreciative - its a pleasant change.

[haha]

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Originally Posted by harley Reading between the lines, sounds like mostly divorced guys going that route. Hard not to react when someone pokes that big festering wound.

That may be an explanation. But it is also true that once you have endured a divorce, you realize that there is meaning in the phrase "the enemy in your bed."

If I were young I would still marry, because I like to have a family. But I would also realize that this is probably the biggest financial hazard that I would likely ever encounter.

Once out of that marriage, no repeats. Men think that they gain lot of loyalty if they marry, and sometimes this is true.

Ha

[EastWest Gal]

DH and I got into and out of the granddaddy of them all MLMs, Sc**w*y, in the mid 90s. Lost some friends along the way, as well as $$. With the Internet, we did some real research into as well as the company's own numbers and realized what a bad deal it was. We wrote our up line a detailed letter, joined and eventually ran a a Yahoo group for several years, and probably saved others from our fate. We also ended up on a national TV show speaking against the scheme.

I haven't had time to read the info about these Chinese investment schemes, but in my book, anything from China or India is designed solely to part Americans from their dollars in return for nothing.

To the OP: wanting to get into such a scheme is a sign of dissatisfaction with time spent working or income or sense of financial security. I was burned out at that point in my life. IMO, women value financial security and are willing to go to great lengths, including working in professions they no longer enjoy (me), marry wealthy but obnoxious or old men (Hugh Hefner's recent wife/wives--whatever) for security.

So I'm guessing OP's wife might be looking for something along those lines. MLM companies are adept at destroying marriages and families preying on this very human need to have a sense of security and belonging.

So, I've been there, done that. Find out what she is looking for. The sharks are preying on her unfilled need. Try to find out what that is and you've got a better chance of steering her clear. Who knows, these thieves may have stealing everything through identity theft as their agenda. You never know.

Since FI in ~2013, and RE this year, I have zero interest in even buying a lottery ticket. Would have been FI sooner if it weren't for Sc****y.

OP stand your ground, be careful, and I wish you success in this.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

[AllDone]

Ditto what EastWestGal said. Before we retired, we would spend $5 on a lottery ticket every time we got anxious about work. We stopped that as soon as we realized that we could afford to retire and it was just a matter of waiting out a few payoffs. Your wife is probably feeling anxious about retirement and finances, so go see a counselor -- financial, if not marriage.

Additionally, if she's a computer engineer, she's not innumerate. My DH means well, but he tends to keep the investment and financial data to himself. He shares it without a problem, if I ask, but only if I ask. Are you doing the same thing? He is more conservative in his approach, too, which frustrates me (too darn much cash!), but it helped to drag him to a financial advisor.

I think the idea about checking with the postmaster about the Chinese scam was an excellent suggestion.

[dand76]

OP, tough situation with many good suggestions so far. As I read thru the posts I began to wonder what if you could put together some sort of agreement or 'contract' that you both would sign and adhere to. Something that would limit each spouses liability to the other spouse's financial actions. Something that would be binding should a divorce become the inevitable end solution. Something like a pre-nuptial agreement except after the wedding. A post-nuptial agreement. I googled it and surprise, surprise, there really is such a thing.

I'm just an old IT guy so know nothing about any of the legalities of this. I began wondering what I might include in this agreement. Maybe things like:
1) n % of each spouse's portfolio is untouchable by the other spouse should the marriage dissolve.
2) Spouse #1 agrees not to retire until his portion of the portfolio reaches at least $nnn (specified dollar amount).
3) Spouse #2 agrees not to retire until her portion of the portfolio reaches at least $nnn (specified dollar amount).

If one spouse sees their portfolio value decreasing which will increase the number of years that will need to be worked and their partner's portfolio is increasing and gaining ground on that retirement date then maybe a lesson will be learned.

As far as investing goes I had my head buried in the sand up until 3 years ago at age 54. It started to dawn on me that I was getting closer to retirement and I had no clue if I was invested properly or how much I needed to pull the plug. So, over the past 3 years I’ve been reading investment books which were suggested by the bogleheads website as well as learning from their forum as well as great info from this one. Point here is that you’ve said that “The problem is she did not have hardly any interest in investing her money until recently” which I’m assuming means little or no investing knowledge. For myself, I thought how can I make intelligent investing decisions if I have no knowledge about investing? It's like thinking I could write quality software code without knowing the programming language. Not possible.

Thanks to modern medicine my DW is down to just a couple personalities, which is manageable . I’m working at getting better at our conversations so that I don’t trigger the 12 year olds appearance. It can be difficult to reason with a pre-teen girl . May or may not apply to your situation but how you word your conversation can help prevent putting the other person on the defensive.

Good luck!
DanD76

[48Fire]

A coworker came to me after his wife of 3 months spent $25,000 on Shirley McLain seminars back in early 90's. He asked me, "What should I do?". I told him to cut his losses. He divorced shortly after that. Have some heart to heart discussions, but if that doesn't work, it could get worse. Good luck!

[Bamaman]

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Originally Posted by MooreBonds How about a Certified Financial Planner? Even if it costs you $500 in hourly fees for them to look at it, see if your wife would accept their recommendation on it before sitting her down in front of a CFP for your 2 sessions. Would be much cheaper than the investment.

There you go. Let a professional be the bad guy. And in your DW vs. DH--you'll be the winner. And they can also point you into a better course to making more money.

[skipro33]

This situation has nothing to do with investing, Chinese, MLM or anything else. It has everything to do with your wife trying to get your attention because she's feeling that she doesn't have it unless she fires you up with off-the-wall money schemes.

You really need a marriage counselor and listen to them. Otherwise, the only hope is that you put a whole lot more time into your wife. And that doesn't mean buying a too-big house, new cars, etc.And it doesn't mean you having toys you don't have time for, like a kayak. It means spending more time with her and making her more important than your money. Buy HER a kayak and do that together for example. Spend time with her doing things you each love to do.

That is what she's trying to do you know; pit herself against your money. It's obvious you consider the money yours or you wouldn't care if she spent it on bingo or Chinese schemes. She is really feeling 2nd fiddle to money in your list of priories.

I'm not saying she's right, I'm saying that's how she's feeling right about now; Money is more important to you than she is or you would put as much effort in her as you do your investments. She's also displaying signs of being bored with her life with you, if she's ready to listen to these other people rather than to your advice.

If you love her, then love her! Let her have no doubt that she comes first, before anything and anyone. That you would rather be dead broke, living under a bridge than in that big house without her. A wife should expect her husband to go as far as even die for her, worrying about money to the point you describe with arguments and such is the wrong signal to send to the flesh of your flesh.

When she becomes the center of your life, then you will become the center of hers. Not some job, some bank account, house, car and ABSOLUTELY not some social media friends, or ANY friends for that matter. Those are all distant second-place finishers or your marriage is in serious trouble.

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by skipro33 This situation has nothing to do with investing, Chinese, MLM or anything else. It has everything to do with your wife trying to get your attention because she's feeling that she doesn't have it unless she fires you up with off-the-wall money schemes. You really need a marriage counselor and listen to them. Otherwise, the only hope is that you put a whole lot more time into your wife. And that doesn't mean buying a too-big house, new cars, etc.And it doesn't mean you having toys you don't have time for, like a kayak. It means spending more time with her and making her more important than your money. Buy HER a kayak and do that together for example. Spend time with her doing things you each love to do. That is what she's trying to do you know; pit herself against your money. It's obvious you consider the money yours or you wouldn't care if she spent it on bingo or Chinese schemes. She is really feeling 2nd fiddle to money in your list of priories. I'm not saying she's right, I'm saying that's how she's feeling right about now; Money is more important to you than she is or you would put as much effort in her as you do your investments. She's also displaying signs of being bored with her life with you, if she's ready to listen to these other people rather than to your advice. If you love her, then love her! Let her have no doubt that she comes first, before anything and anyone. That you would rather be dead broke, living under a bridge than in that big house without her. A wife should expect her husband to go as far as even die for her, worrying about money to the point you describe with arguments and such is the wrong signal to send to the flesh of your flesh. When she becomes the center of your life, then you will become the center of hers. Not some job, some bank account, house, car and ABSOLUTELY not some social media friends, or ANY friends for that matter. Those are all distant second-place finishers or your marriage is in serious trouble.

Wow... this came out of left field...

I do not see this as an answer... heck, I do not see this as the problem...

I also think you are wrong in your view of a marriage... there is no way I would want to live with DW under a bridge so she can spend money willi-nillie on some stupid things... that to me shows that SHE has a problem that needs to be fixed....


Let's change the input... say instead of 'investing' she was gambling... that she gambled away all of their money... would you still say the same thing as above (well, maybe you would).... What if it were drugs

Nope, I would not stay married to someone who would want to put the future of a marriage at so much risk by not being responsible with money...

[skipro33]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud Wow... this came out of left field... I do not see this as an answer... heck, I do not see this as the problem... I also think you are wrong in your view of a marriage... there is no way I would want to live with DW under a bridge so she can spend money willi-nillie on some stupid things... that to me shows that SHE has a problem that needs to be fixed.... Let's change the input... say instead of 'investing' she was gambling... that she gambled away all of their money... would you still say the same thing as above (well, maybe you would).... What if it were drugs Nope, I would not stay married to someone who would want to put the future of a marriage at so much risk by not being responsible with money...

If my wife had a gambling problem, a drug problem or any other problem, I would not kick her to the curb.

She's described by the OP as having been reasonably prudent with finances in the past. Something's changed and from what I read, it's his attitude of putting money before his wife and she is acting out to get his attention back. Just the action of listening to on-line 'friends' over her spouse's advice is more than enough to spell that out. I would seek a Doctor's advice if she's changed as it could be a medical issue, and I'd seek a councilors advice as well before taking your advice of divorce.

Too many people today don't see marriage as a life time commitment. For better or worse. In sickness and in health. For richer or poorer. Those mean things. At least they do to us. We've been though some rough times and I'm so glad I didn't consider divorce an option. 40 years this year married to the same girl I still consider the prom queen. I will always have her back, no matter what. OP's wife seems to be thinking something else about her husband's opinion of what she means to him based on her actions.

****EDIT****
I've made my case as best I can. Sorry if my opinion is misconstrued, however, I don't think I will be needing to reply back to further differences of opinion. We all have one and I'll stand with mine, such as it is.

Cheers!!

[Philliefan33]

My opinion, based only on what the OP has disclosed.

This isn't about the wife wanting to spend money. She wants some control, or at least some input into the financial part of the marriage. She's got a job that makes me believe she is an intelligent person, yet the impression I get from the OP is that he believes that he has to be the one in charge of the investments. Didn't one of his posts relate how the wife had money in her 401K that hadn't grown much, until he took over? The OP thinks that's a good thing, but did the wife ask him to take over? Did she willingly give up control of *her* retirement account, or was she pressured to do so?

It sounds to me like the OP controls the financial decisions. And maybe that's a good thing, if the wife would seriously consider the Chinese scam. But I know it wouldn't work for me. I want and deserve input, and can't understand why someone wouldn't want to have a voice.

Wouldn't it be better to "let" (it rankles me to phrase it so) her try a MLM ? The OP sees MLM as nothing but a money loser, but the wife probably sees it as a chance to make some independent decisions about money, be involved with friends, and make some money. Yes, I know, she probably won't make much money. But she probably won't lose too much either, unless she's very thick-headed she will soon learn to stop throwing good money after bad. And just maybe, she's the kind of "people person" who thrives in the MLM world and ends up being the big shot who drives the pink Cadillac.

[travelover]

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Originally Posted by skipro33 ............. When she becomes the center of your life, then you will become the center of hers. Not some job, some bank account, house, car and ABSOLUTELY not some social media friends, or ANY friends for that matter. Those are all distant second-place finishers or your marriage is in serious trouble.

While there may some truth in this, I reject the idea that when a wife acts crazy, it is somehow the husband's fault for not making her happy enough. Marriage is a partnership between two equal adults, with equal responsibilities.

[harley]

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Originally Posted by travelover While there may some truth in this, I reject the idea that when a wife acts crazy, it is somehow the husband's fault for not making her happy enough. Marriage is a partnership between two equal adults, with equal responsibilities.

Obviously you didn't take marital philosophy 101.

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If a man says something in a forest and there is no one there to hear him, is he still wrong?

[haha]

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Originally Posted by travelover While there may some truth in this, I reject the idea that when a wife acts crazy, it is somehow the husband's fault for not making her happy enough. Marriage is a partnership between two equal adults, with equal responsibilities.

Naughty person! You need to study Rules For Men.

Ha

[travelover]

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Originally Posted by harley Obviously you didn't take marital philosophy 101.

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Originally Posted by haha Naughty person! You need to study Rules For Men. Ha

Guilty as charged.

[bingybear]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud Wow... this came out of left field... I do not see this as an answer... heck, I do not see this as the problem... I also think you are wrong in your view of a marriage... there is no way I would want to live with DW under a bridge so she can spend money willi-nillie on some stupid things... that to me shows that SHE has a problem that needs to be fixed.... Let's change the input... say instead of 'investing' she was gambling... that she gambled away all of their money... would you still say the same thing as above (well, maybe you would).... What if it were drugs Nope, I would not stay married to someone who would want to put the future of a marriage at so much risk by not being responsible with money...

read the other posts in the thread... many including mine though this was a marriage issue, not financial. Finding a solution is much more important than finding who to blame. We've only heard one side.