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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-20-2007, 07:04 PM   #61
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

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Originally Posted by mathjak107
there are no guarantees just like a corporate bond. its what they strive to do and in the last 9 years of running them its exactly what they do. there never was an instant either where the property was worth less when sold. of course its in the prospectus that they can delay sales until things are more favorable.

all in all for the amount of risk involved i find it a worthwhile addition to my portfolio and another ave of adding stability to it.
OK. I'll pass. I don't see any advantage in stability at all. My FRESX did better, performance wise. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 02:26 AM   #62
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

I got in to REITs near the bottom, but missed the top by several years.

The only two I own are Realty Company (O) which I intend to hold forever. I think they are a very shareholder friendly company. And CSE which is technically a REIT, but acts more like a commercial bank and pays a very nice 9%+ dividend.
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 04:15 AM   #63
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

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Originally Posted by Sam
OK. I'll pass. I don't see any advantage in stability at all. My FRESX did better, performance wise. Thanks for the clarification.
well the advantage is most reits have fallen 20% or more off their highs and its based on pure perception and investor sentiment not reality.

again your trying to compare stability of bonds with stability of stocks. these are 2 different vehicles. the unlisted reits are really income generators and if thats all they did then even thats a great return at 8-1/2%. the fact there may be a sweetner at the end is only a bonus.
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 08:59 AM   #64
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

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Originally Posted by mathjak107
my two favorite publiclly traded are icf and rwr. at 75 ill buy into rwr again
Funny you should mention IRC. I have several clients and family members who bought it when it used to be an untraded REIT. Thry bought the shares at $9.50 and collected a 9-10% dividend all the way until the IPO. They have made out pretty well

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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 10:02 AM   #65
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

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Originally Posted by mathjak107
thats where you are so wrong my friend. we collected 7to 8-1/2% interest for the last 7 years. thats in a world ranging from less than 1% to between 4-5% in bonds cd's mm .
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Originally Posted by Sam
OK. I'll pass. I don't see any advantage in stability at all. My FRESX did better, performance wise. Thanks for the clarification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
again your trying to compare stability of bonds with stability of stocks. these are 2 different vehicles. the unlisted reits are really income generators and if thats all they did then even thats a great return at 8-1/2%. the fact there may be a sweetner at the end is only a bonus.
For the record, I never tried to compare Apple Hospitality with bonds. You did.


Anyway, what I was really interested in is finding out what makes Apple Hospitality more stable than run-of-the-mill REITs like FRESX. So far I have not seen any tangible indication that it is.
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 10:09 AM   #66
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

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Originally Posted by clifp
I got in to REITs near the bottom, but missed the top by several years.
Yeah me too, but then again ya stay rich by selling too soon.

When I cant find a single person who can explain the valuation on an asset class while keeping a straight face, I'm done with it. No remorse about it continuing to rise without any valid reason other than inertia.
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 10:30 AM   #67
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

FWIW, the DJ Equity REIT Total Return Index (.REIT or ^REIT) is up 1.27% right now. Whew!
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 10:55 AM   #68
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

I'm a big fan of O as well. They have a good record of increasing their dividends. As a little bonus to the ER crowd, they pay their dividends monthly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp
I got in to REITs near the bottom, but missed the top by several years.

The only two I own are Realty Company (O) which I intend to hold forever. I think they are a very shareholder friendly company. And CSE which is technically a REIT, but acts more like a commercial bank and pays a very nice 9%+ dividend.
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 12:05 PM   #69
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

there are only two real estate funds in my 403b, i have the van kampen...one month is about neg .4% and 3 mth is neg 3% and one year is about 3% positive, previous year was about 30% pos!!!

guess it's a good thing i'm young and i'm buyin' it cheaper... but given the previous steap climb, seems it has a long way to go down!!!

it's about 13% of my 403b for now...
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 06:25 PM   #70
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

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Originally Posted by Sam
For the record, I never tried to compare Apple Hospitality with bonds. You did.


Anyway, what I was really interested in is finding out what makes Apple Hospitality more stable than run-of-the-mill REITs like FRESX. So far I have not seen any tangible indication that it is.
the fact is a reit is a stock and is very volatile, it swings wildly for many reasons, sometimes moving 5% in a day or 20% in 6 weeks . . because unlisted reits dont trade they tend to stay in a very narrow range just like your house or personal business .you dont revalue your house daily and have it worth less or more over a two week period unless you were selling it. the unlisted reits spin off income from the business operation and as long as the business makes enough money dividends can go up, or down if they dont. thru the recession of the 2,000's the interest rate varied from a low of 7 to 8-1/2% depending on business no daily price changes to make you cringe. could prices be lower in 7 years when the properties are sold? sure. is it likely? very unlikely over a 7 year period. but even if not the 8-1/2% return aint bad either.

for a conservative income generator i find it supurb... the fact that it may have a capital gain at the end is just an added bonus not something i would even count on.

on the other hand my publically traded reits were one heck of a ride with spectaular gains over the years and maybe some spectacular loses. some are already down over 20%
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??
Old 05-21-2007, 06:49 PM   #71
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Re: REITs finally taking a dive??

to funny as i was typing the last post i got a call from david lerner. with the sale of apple 2 to ing bank about 2 months ago most people just rolled it into apple vii and they called to say apple vii has reached its limit and will be closing. if anyone wanted to take a shot you have to wait and see if they start apple viii
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:17 AM   #72
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well the advantage is most reits have fallen 20% or more off their highs and its based on pure perception and investor sentiment not reality. ...
Could you expand on that statement (i.e., what perception, what sentiment ?)
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:18 AM   #73
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FRESX mad a nice bounce the past couple of day. Almost back to where it was at the beginning of the year.

Off topic, I really like Yahoo Finance's new style charts !
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:53 AM   #74
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Could you expand on that statement (i.e., what perception, what sentiment ?)
stocks trade not only on reality of what actually is at the moment but on pereception of the future too. a company misses earnings by a penny and they get pummeled by 20% in a day like this is forever. next week back up again on no news. . the markets always look ahead and are always reacting big time to things that may or may not ever happen. the markets always have a tendency to over do things both on the upside and the down. stocks swing daily based on things that may never come to pass in the future, in fact the same news has already made stocks sink one day and rise the next just last week with the retail sales report. same news killed us on thursday and rallied us on friday.

on the other hand real brick and morter sells for the exact real value at that moment or based on the real cash flow of the property. there may be a little blue sky added to the price but basically the price dosnt swing 10-20% from one month to the next.

comparing a traded reit and un-traded reit is a little like comparing an income fund to a growth fund. there are wild swings and big loss or gain potential in a traded reit, the un-traded is usually designed for income and price stability eliminating the swings .. of course most of the time as always reduced risk is traded for reduced potential gains.

i use 15% un-traded reits and 5% traded reits in my mix .

.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:57 AM   #75
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If, like me, you're holding for the indefinite future, the daily fluctuations don't matter so much.
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Old 05-23-2007, 06:51 PM   #76
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If, like me, you're holding for the indefinite future, the daily fluctuations don't matter so much.
this is true. but i use it for the income it generates which is way more than my bonds or cd's can give me .
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