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Old 11-26-2011, 04:02 PM   #21
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I am proud to announce that I retired two years ago, leaving my job open and available for the first qualified person to come along. (That took over a year of constant advertising by my agency.)

Now, instead of hogging a job that others need, I am patriotically contributing to the economic health of our country by spending more in retirement than I did while working.

Do I get a medal or something? I'm waiting excitedly for it.
I honestly don't understand why, given the shortage of jobs relative to generally qualified applicants, retirement (especially early retirement) is portrayed as selfish. Seems to me it's even 8more* selfish to hold on to a job you no longer financially *need* while several unemployed folks who need that job are waiting and ready to do it.
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:08 PM   #22
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I honestly don't understand why, given the shortage of jobs relative to generally qualified applicants, retirement (especially early retirement) is portrayed as selfish. Seems to me it's even 8more* selfish to hold on to a job you no longer financially *need* while several unemployed folks who need that job are waiting and ready to do it.

This is why I retired on the very first day that I qualified to do so and consequently didn't need the job. (Well, actually the third day since the first day was a Saturday - - I wanted to be sure there was no question about it). I wanted to retire, others want to work, or so I thought at the time, so it was a no-brainer.

I expect that medal, along with appropriate fanfare and ceremony, to materialize any day now.
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:09 PM   #23
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I honestly don't understand why, given the shortage of jobs relative to generally qualified applicants, retirement (especially early retirement) is portrayed as selfish. Seems to me it's even 8more* selfish to hold on to a job you no longer financially *need* while several unemployed folks who need that job are waiting and ready to do it.
+1 , I had a friend that hung on to 68, didn't need the money, but claimed his wife didn't want him hanging around the house
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:14 PM   #24
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I don't think it is satire. The author sees a large and growing number of people who are unlikely to find employment in the future, plus economic trends such as offshoring of jobs, mechanization and rising productivity per worker, which tend to add to the number of these "superfluous" workers. In the distant past, he says, these people would have died from poverty-related causes, or been killed off in wars, or transported to the Colonies, or (even longer ago) been sold as slaves. In more recent history, the surplus labor force was reduced by locking some of them up in jail which kept them off the unemployment rolls while incarcerated and made them less unemployable after release, but this "solution" is expensive and it may not be possible to continue it in the future. Medical advances have made it less likely these superfluous workers will die from illnesses of poverty, and more likely that soldiers will survive injuries which in the past might have killed them outright.

There are a number of possible responses to this state of things. One possibility is to make no attempt to change it. Another is to redistribute wealth by taxing the people who have higher incomes and/or assets to provide support for those with lower income/assets.

A third possible response is to redistribute the work—i.e. employ more people to generate the same output of goods and services. (Actually, the editorial combines employment redistribution with economic redistribution, by proposing that the difference in wages caused by reduction of hours be made up by unemployment compensation, paid for by new taxes on income and wealth, which in the author's opinion are unavoidable.) I defintely agree with the author on this:
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A society that has permanently expelled a significant proportion of its members from the work force would soon deteriorate into an unbelievably angry country, with intense and continuing conflict between the have-jobs and have-nones.
I don't know if redistribution of work is better than other potential responses, but I think it should be considered along with other options.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:55 PM   #25
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+1 , I had a friend that hung on to 68, didn't need the money, but claimed his wife didn't want him hanging around the house
I take it he stayed at work because there were no titty bars nearby?
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:30 PM   #26
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I take it he stayed at work because there were no titty bars nearby?
He had a job at Clever Beaver...
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:45 AM   #27
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The article's idea about reducing the work week to something like 30 hours makes a lot of sense to me. There have been so many labor saving advances in technology, people should not need to work the 40 hour week any more. Yet in many professions, employees are expected to work much more than that. Making the same income, but working less time to get it, should be a goal of civilized society - but of course that ain't ever gonna happen!
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:13 PM   #28
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One thing that would help would be if those of us nearing retirement could work part-time for a few years before we retire. I would gladly work 1/2 time and so would others like me. For every two of us who do so a full-time job opens for another worker. But, getting the employers to agree to that is like pulling teeth from a grizzly bear. They don't like it for several reasons:

1. They don't want to restructure work to allow for this change.

2. They won't be able to get a nearly full-time worker for a part-time salary (which is often what happens in my field).

3. They feel a loss of control if the employee is not on-site doing something, anything!

I have suggested that I work only one semester a year rather than two. I would be willing to accept my benefits being pro-rated at 50%, including my employer's contribution to medical insurance. They could even stretch my pay checks out over 12 months, giving them a very nice interest free loan. No deal.

The few people who do work part-time often have to work split-shifts and/or travel from one site to another (on their own time and at their own expense) for their job. In other words, they end up putting in nearly a full day for part-time wages.
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:27 PM   #29
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I don't think you can feel too guilty when millions of illegal aliens take jobs away from legal residents and citizens.
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:58 PM   #30
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I don't think you can feel too guilty when millions of illegal aliens take jobs away from legal residents and citizens.
I knew there was a reason I couldn't find work washing dishes, picking lettuce, or trimming vines.

Alas, there's no catfish packing plant near me, or I could go for that ten hour day of gutting fish at piecework rates. I bet they'd even let me sleep under the sluice box, so's I could save on rent.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:06 PM   #31
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The article's idea about reducing the work week to something like 30 hours makes a lot of sense to me. There have been so many labor saving advances in technology, people should not need to work the 40 hour week any more. Yet in many professions, employees are expected to work much more than that. Making the same income, but working less time to get it, should be a goal of civilized society - but of course that ain't ever gonna happen!
Unfortunately, working less may delay completion of a project or introduction of a new product.
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:40 PM   #32
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I am to ready give everything I have for the common good as long as everyone does too.
Kinda like, put down your gun, and I will put down mine. Not a chance. No takers.
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:48 PM   #33
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Unfortunately, working less may delay completion of a project or introduction of a new product.
Thanks for reminding me why I couldn't wait to get outta Dodge.
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:40 PM   #34
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+1 , I had a friend that hung on to 68, didn't need the money, but claimed his wife didn't want him hanging around the house
I know of a guy who had a divorce decree that entitled his wife to a percentage of his retirement pay (but nothing while he was working.) He continued to work just out of shear stubborness. When he was around 70, she finally died, and everybody figured he would finally retire. But by then, he had so defined himself by being a complete pain in the butt at work, that he hung on until he finally stroked out one day. The guy was worth a couple million, due to amassed stocks and farm land. He died within a year from his 'retirement'.

I guess he showed her!
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:46 PM   #35
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This is why I retired on the very first day that I qualified to do so and consequently didn't need the job. (Well, actually the third day since the first day was a Saturday - - I wanted to be sure there was no question about it). I wanted to retire, others want to work, or so I thought at the time, so it was a no-brainer.

I expect that medal, along with appropriate fanfare and ceremony, to materialize any day now.
Sorry, no medal in these difficult times. They cost too much. However, we can offer you some higher taxes and lower benefits.

As to the original article, its either a piece of poorly written satire or an arguement for policies designed to export capital, reduce investment and impair economic growth to the detriment of job creation. Like it or not, we all live in the real world and have to compete in that world - making a country less competitive is the opposite of helpful.

There are many easier and less damaging ways to stimulate the economy than simply lashing out at the businesses which actually create the jobs and generate the tax revenues everyone is demanding.
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Old 11-27-2011, 09:22 PM   #36
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Sorry, no medal in these difficult times. They cost too much. However, we can offer you some higher taxes and lower benefits.

As to the original article, its either a piece of poorly written satire or an arguement for policies designed to export capital, reduce investment and impair economic growth to the detriment of job creation. Like it or not, we all live in the real world and have to compete in that world - making a country less competitive is the opposite of helpful.

There are many easier and less damaging ways to stimulate the economy than simply lashing out at the businesses which actually create the jobs and generate the tax revenues everyone is demanding.
Referring to the article linked in the OP, there have been multiple references to satire. I read it and there is no satire at all. Where do you see satire? Likewise, in what way does the author "lash out at business"?
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Old 11-27-2011, 09:32 PM   #37
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Referring to the article linked in the OP, there have been multiple references to satire. I read it and there is no satire at all. Where do you see satire? Likewise, in what way does the author "lash out at business"?
I took this as satire:

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Over the past quarter-century, one very costly way of decreasing the surplus has been the imprisonment of people, mostly dark-skinned men, for actual and invented offenses.
At least, I hope it is.

As to lashing out at businesses, this is a pretty clear example:

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special taxes on the capital-intensive part of the economy
At the risk of going completely off topic, there are some much easier ways to stimulate the economy that cost relatively little.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:39 AM   #38
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There was no satire in the article. It was not "anti-business" either, although if someone tries hard enough just about any view can be found and supported or challenged.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:24 AM   #39
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Maybe, unfortunately a third of these folks are uninsured
Maybe, more unfortunately a third of these folks are insured.

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This is why I retired on the very first day that I qualified to do so and consequently didn't need the job. (Well, actually the third day since the first day was a Saturday - - I wanted to be sure there was no question about it). I wanted to retire, others want to work, or so I thought at the time, so it was a no-brainer.

I expect that medal, along with appropriate fanfare and ceremony, to materialize any day now.
You should be nominated for both Nobel peace and economics prizes next time. Please be ready for the call from the Nobel committee.

Regardless if there is any satire in the article linked in the OP or not, taxing more on rich or not, redistributing work or not, capitalism productivity push or not, etc, the supply and demand curve still can not escape from the ultimate natural resource constrain. There is no easy and clean solution out there. Nevertheless, I still agree ER should be everyone's duty to society.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:36 PM   #40
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Nevertheless, I still agree ER should be everyone's duty to society.
ER can only happen when you are financially independent by LBYM and savings and/or working for an institution that provides generous (or outrageous) pension and health benefits.
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