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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-19-2006, 08:38 PM   #41
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

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I am a security guard and make about 24k per year. I like the job but some of my co workers drive me crazy. You got me thinking how many fun jobs are their that pay 30k? What are some of them?
I know a guy who said the most fun he ever had on a job was as a trash collector when he was in high school and college. He loved being in the sun all day and he said lifting heavy trash cans got him in terrific shape. No responsibility other than showing up for work and dumping trash in the back of the truck.

The most fun I ever had was when I first became a police officer. Working in patrol, riding by myself, and most of the time I chose where I wanted to go and what I wanted to do. I met tons of good looking women and a lot of interesting people. Every night was an adventure. I made about $19K a year in 1980.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-19-2006, 09:01 PM   #42
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Well, the advice of hiring someone to lessen the load is a good one. We have been trying to find the right person, because as the previous posted said often times your jobs/businesses that make a lot of $$ are dependent on the owner working. Without him the company is nothing. The only reason I can sell for 1X earnings is because he is confident he can continue the business at close to its level of profitability without me. Who knows if thats true, but I like him thinking that way.

As for fun jobs, I have been doing more research and basically my "fun" jobs involve low resposibility and learning something new, and meeting and talking with fun people. My research tells me these jobs seem to yeild about 20K a year not 30K so that is a problem. Examples of what I think is fun: park ranger, bicycle mechanic, retail kite shop, bartending, to name a few. So many bartenders make great money, but I wouldnt work the hours it would take to make over 25K probably.

As for people that think I am crazy to walk away from a 300K job, I say, yes I know it sounds nuts, but until you walk a day in the shoes you cant realize everything involved. You can however imagine though that few people earning that kind of $$ and running a business that is that profitable, are not dealing with immense amounts of stress and a minimum of 11 hour days. So, to walk away and live my life through my 40's and 50's doing something low stress and interesting sounds good.

Plus, I don't spend much $$ now. Sure I gross 300K, but I spend about 55K a year, so there is no limos and fancy cars. After working this job, you tend to reprioritize your life.

My fiancee wife has a great job she enjoys, making 100K and doesnt mind if I retire early as long as I can pay my half of the bills and keep us in the same lifestyle. That's why I need about 55K net.

Oh and the guy who said he wanted to buy the business...if you could do make it starting and running a business this profitable, you too would have done it. Not that I am unique, but I work hard & smart and am not afraid of taking some risk. Many good sales people can earn 200K+, but not everyone can sell like them. Hope that helps explain some.

Thanks again for the inheritence info. That was my favorite takeaway from this so far. You cant count on that.

- Shab
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-19-2006, 09:07 PM   #43
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

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Originally Posted by Shabber

As for fun jobs, I have been doing more research and basically my "fun" jobs involve low resposibility and learning something new, and meeting and talking with fun people.
That is a great point. As my responsibility grew I started getting gray hairs and a sour disposition. By the time I reached the point where I was maxed out on the responsibility meter I was hating the work. Every time I got promoted someone would say "But I thought you didn't want to be a Lieutenant, Captain, etc.?" My answer was always the same: I still don't want the job. I just want the paycheck that comes with it.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-19-2006, 09:46 PM   #44
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Shabber,
If you are only getting 1x earnings for your share, then you have a big incentive to figure out how to stick it out longer, make it work psychologically, get a shrink, take mental health breaks, learn to take a lunch break or whatever it takes to keep this gravy train going a little longer before you bail. I know it seems like every month is forever, but your savings are low for ERing, and you have hit the jackpot financially, as long as you keep at it a bit longer. Can you scale back to 75%, take something of a paycut, and still keep your equity and relationship strong with your business partner? Can you simply take a few weeks vacation this summer?

Most of us dealt with work situations for a few years before ER that seemed impossible, and didn't have nearly the payoff you are getting. Try to hang in there, while keeping the buyout option warm and possibly even getting someone impartial to value the business with an eye toward getting something better than 1x for your half. If you could work another year, and then get 2x or even 3x for your share, then you'd be in a lot better shape financially. That could get you closer to the 800k- 1 million mark in savings which can generate annual spending closer to your target. (Around here we like to think that 4-4.5% annual withdrawal is a safe upper limit over the long run -- esepcially now that you're viewing your inheritance as not-as-secure as you might have thought).

I agree that there should be ways to earn 20k a year and have fun. But think more in terms of part time work you really love, possibly in your own business or something you do independently, vs working in a 'job' with a 'boss' etc etc. Those kinds of situations tend to feel heavy and people in them, who might have little hope for the future or feel trapped in that job, can make working there a drag.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-19-2006, 11:50 PM   #45
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Shab,
....Reading your posts makes me 99% certain you will not find any 20K to 30K job interesting or fun after the first month. You may actually like the stress and long hours and big paycheck (maybe status too) of your present situation more than you realize. I would take ESRBob's advice. Keep your nose to the grindstone awhile longer and save enough to reach FI so that you can have more options and do what you really want.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 09:35 AM   #46
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Perhaps less for Shabber than for those watching at home, my husband is happy with the lower stress of being a college staff instructor as opposed to being a director of engineering. And his paycheck was only cut in half or so--and he went from 2-3 weeks of vacation to 4+ months(!). But happiness is relative: he got better, but not best. If it weren't for my need for group health insurance, he might ER now
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 12:38 PM   #47
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Wish I could find a "fun" job that paid 30k a year. I have never made over 40k/yr and can't recall any of the jobs being "fun" and low stress....but maybe that is because I am an RN.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 02:26 PM   #48
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Andy,
....I also am an RN. To me the stress and challenge is a big part of what makes the job fun. I never work more than two nights a week and so that helps to keep the stress from being too much of a problem. It seems to me that working nights is just as challenging, sometimes more so than working days but the stress is much less because there are so many fewer people to deal with. Of course the fact that I spend the night working with beautiful young women is also kind of nice.
....You have never made more than 40K a year? I know many fulltime RNs making WAY more than that. Have you explored your options? I could get a BIG pay raise just by going to the PRN pool in our hospital. The night shift differential is about 6K per year here. For night nurses who work fulltime in my hospital and do not call in sick* there is also bonus money up to 3K per year. Agencies pay way more than the local hospitals. I know several nurses who claim to have made over 100K in years that they worked for agencies at night and worked LOTS of overtime. Have you considered going back to school? Nurse Practitioners and Nurse Anethesists (sp?) can make good money.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 03:39 PM   #49
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

I actually spent 19 years of my career working in a physicians office (He made a lot of money, but he wasn't very good about sharing it-I never got anymore than cost of living raises in that time and I usually had to beg for them). I know (from friends who work in hospitals) I could have done quite a bit better I had other stresses in my life and without going into the gory details, decided I couldn't take on shift work etc. ( I was in a emotionally and verbally abusivle marriage and I think I thought I should just take that from any man, so I let that Dr take advantage of me financially)

I am now in my early 50's. I have pretty bad osteoarthritis in my hands and low back and know I couldn't take on the physical demands of hospital nursing.

I moved a little more than a year ago, have the money to be FI(mostly because my wants are few and a paid for house). I didn't work for 8 monthes. Then a 21 hour a week job came up in clinical research, something I have been interested in. (Something I was doing a little of in the office I worked for). I am really enjoying this job for one thing it gets me out meeting people. I work for a sight management company, which provided staff for Dr doing research. I see patients in different offices every day. I kinda am my own boss. Make more money per hour than I did before even after just starting and still have time to do other things. It is a nice mix for me.

If I had my life to live over again, I most certainly would have done things a lot different. But you don't get to do that. I am quite pleased that my life is as good as it is now. :
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 03:43 PM   #50
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

How wonderful Andy that you found a satisfying job. Many here never found work they really loved.

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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 04:02 PM   #51
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
*

If I had my life to live over again, I most certainly would have done things a lot different.* But you don't get to do that.* I am quite pleased that my life is as good as it is now.* :
Andy,
....There are a whole bunch of things that I could have and should have done differently in my life. Like you I am happy that my life is as good as it is now. I am also extremely surprised that things have worked out so well for my wife and I.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 04:02 PM   #52
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Tough it out. *There are no fun 30 K jobs, unless you don't need the 30 K at all, or get incredibly lucky. *And if you bail now, thinking you'll have an easier gig, you might wind up kicking yourself to death. *

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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 04:47 PM   #53
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

On reflection, it strikes me that my response was a bit too flip to be helpful.

My advice was based upon the fact that I've gone through the same conundrum: making a lot of money doing something very stressful.* I looked into all kinds of other jobs, and businesses, I thought would be more fun, but never made the leap and now I'm glad I didn't.* A lot of those jobs just seem like so much aggravation to me now; I wouldn't want to be bothered with them.*

However, perhaps part of the reason for that is I've been ground down from my job, and haven't aged very well (I have just about ten years on you).* If I'd made the move sooner I might still have the energy to enjoy normal productive cheerful low-stress sorts of work.*

Really, you're asking about downshifting, rather than early retirement.* Which might, or might not, be a great idea.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-20-2006, 10:44 PM   #54
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Cransten,
Good point -- when does Early semi-retirement become downshifting or vice versa?

I think one difference is that the early retiree who chooses to or needs to work a few hours a week to make ends meet, is doing so in the context of an overall long-term Financial Independence plan. They have been saving and know how much they need to work and are exploring alternatives, including a less-stressful, shorter workweek in their original industry. The downshifter just needs some relief and figures he/she can get by on less income, so asks for a part time job in current industry/company and makes it work, at least in the short term. But the downshifter is missing the overall long-term planning and more significant resources of the early semi retiree, as well as the wide-open options of lifestyle and new work choices that the early retiree with some part-time work has available.

Might seem like splitting hairs, but i'm not sure that particular hair ever got split around here, so thx for raising it!
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-23-2006, 03:48 PM   #55
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Never, ever bank on getting an inheritance. Your rich relative could (a) live longer than you do (2) leave it to somebody else (or charity) (c) invest it foolishly (d) spend it. Whatever about your own investments, other people's are outside your control. If you do get to inherit something, consider it icing on the cake.

Does anyone remember the little old lady in France who sold the equity in her house, maintaining the right to live in it while she lived, when she was in her 80s? That's a common financial strategy for French retirees. Based on actuarial tables, she should have kicked the bucket within a few years. Well, she had a well financed retirement and lived to 123. The guy who bought the house had long since died!

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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 07-23-2006, 04:22 PM   #56
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

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Originally Posted by Meadbh
Does anyone remember the little old lady in France who sold the equity in her house, maintaining the right to live in it while she lived, when she was in her 80s?
Yes, Jeanne Calment.

Quote:
Well, she had a well financed retirement and lived to 123. The guy who bought the house had long since died!
According to Wikipedia, it was even worse than that:

Quote:
In 1965, aged 90, with no living heirs, Jeanne Calment signed a deal, common in France, to sell her condominium apartment en viager to lawyer François Raffray. Raffray, then aged 47, agreed to pay a monthly sum until she died, an agreement sometimes called a "reverse mortgage". At the time of the deal the value of the apartment was equal to ten years of payments. Unfortunately for Raffray, not only did she survive more than thirty years, but he died first, in December 1995, of cancer, at the age of 77. His widow had to continue the payments.
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 08-06-2006, 07:47 PM   #57
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

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Yes, Jeanne Calment.

According to Wikipedia, it was even worse than that:
Mme Calment had a great attitude, taking up fencing at 85 and playing a cameo in a movie at 114. Below are a few of her quotes. She must have been quite a character!

"I've only got one wrinkle, and I'm sitting on it."
"Wine, I'm in love with that."
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 08-13-2006, 10:19 PM   #58
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

Well, the tough it out approach is probably the right thing to do. Seems business is really taking off and financially I would be crazy to leave. My plan is to take more vacations. They seem to be the only satisfying way for me to spend money. I am not a car guy, or clothes, or anything like that. Time off from work means the most. My weekends are precious so I think vacation will help.

So, my risk averse financial planning has me with 90% of my money in a 4.9% money market and the balance in a midcap mutual fund. With a 5 year retirement window, how whould you be invested? Also, all this middle eaast war and terrorism scares me enough to wait for the next "bad" thing before I jump into a SP500 fund. Thoughts?

- Shab
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 08-13-2006, 11:48 PM   #59
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

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Originally Posted by Shabber
So, my risk averse financial planning has me with 90% of my money in a 4.9% money market and the balance in a midcap mutual fund. With a 5 year retirement window, how whould you be invested? Also, all this middle eaast war and terrorism scares me enough to wait for the next "bad" thing before I jump into a SP500 fund. Thoughts?
This techniques of waiting for a*disaster and then buying worked well for many years.

Lately, the cycles seem to be longer or something, because the opportunies for lower risk entries seem less frequent. Still, I think it is a good plan for anyone who is considering a near term retirement, or who is already retired.

Ha
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?
Old 08-14-2006, 08:59 AM   #60
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Re: Retire Early with a fun $30K job?

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...Plus, I don't spend much $$ now. Sure I gross 300K, but I spend about 55K a year, so there is no limos and fancy cars....

My fiancee wife has a great job she enjoys, making 100K and doesnt mind if I retire early as long as I can pay my half of the bills and keep us in the same lifestyle. That's why I need about 55K net.
Something doesn't sound right. You and your wife make $400,000 a year and spend $55,000 a year and have only $250,000 saved?

Did you and your wife just start making this money a year or two ago?
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