Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Retiree Entitlements ‘Undermine’ Everything Else
Old 03-20-2013, 03:41 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,880
Retiree Entitlements ‘Undermine’ Everything Else

I still do not put myself in the catagory of "elderly" but I bet that many (most) others do. I guess that I'm on the entitlements bandwagon as I receive SS payments, medicare, pensions, don't work a lick...maybe I am part of that elderly group after all. Damnit!

Quote:
“Domestic discretionary spending,” he added, “a category that includes food inspectors, the FBI, the National Weather Service and many others—faces a similar fate. By 2023, this spending will drop 33% as a share of national income, estimates the Congressional Budget Office. Dozens of programs will be squeezed.”

And whether or not politicians deal with it is of little matter; decisions will be made.

“Choices are being made by default. Almost everything is being subordinated to protect retirees. Solicitude for government’s largest constituency undermines the rest of government.”

This is an “immensely important story,” he noted, and one almost totally ignored by the media.

“One reason is that it’s happening spontaneously and invisibly: Growing numbers of elderly are simply collecting existing benefits. The media do not excel at covering inertia.”

Turning his sights to the aforementioned politicians, Samuelson writes that liberals “drive this process by treating Social Security and Medicare as sacrosanct.”

“Do not touch a penny of benefits; these programs are by definition progressive; all recipients are deserving and needy. Only a few brave liberals complain that this dogma threatens programs for the non-aged poor. “
Retiree Entitlements
__________________

__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-20-2013, 04:04 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Mickey, I have learned that "old" is a constantly moving target usually at least 10 years above your present age. I remember about 20 years ago, my then wife's grandmother who was about 70 at the time commenting about a persons death and that he died "young". He was approximately her age. I was thinking to myself that seemed awful old to me and nowhere near "young". As the years pass, I don't know if my definition of young has changed much, but my definition of old keeps climbing though.
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 04:09 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
As the years pass, I don't know if my definition of young has changed much, but my definition of old keeps climbing though.
But have you noticed how there are more and more young people as the years pass. Where are they all coming from?
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 04:09 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,410
The whole notion of SS benefits being sacrosanct is why I refused to renew my membership in AARP last November. Their answer only seems to be to raise SS taxes because according to them their surveys tell them that's what people want. Bull-youknowwhat. I think the solution needs to allow all options to be on the table, not just increasing taxes.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 04:10 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
The whole notion of SS benefits being sacrosanct is why I refused to renew my membership in AARP last November. Their answer only seems to be to raise SS taxes because according to them their surveys tell them that's what people want. I think the solution needs to allow all options to be on the table, not just increasing taxes.
+1, never joined for the same reason, agree with the rest of your POV too.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
The whole notion of SS benefits being sacrosanct is why I refused to renew my membership in AARP last November. Their answer only seems to be to raise SS taxes because according to them their surveys tell them that's what people want. Bull-youknowwhat. I think the solution needs to allow all options to be on the table, not just increasing taxes.
AARP attempts in a weak way to be a union for retirees and older people. A person joins because his interests tend to coincide more with these groups, than they do for example with any one of 100s of other employee unions, pressure groups, etc., etc.

If I thought that AARP did this more vigorously and effectively, I would join. As it is, I think they are less effective at being a union for oldsters than they could be. Older people are inherently in a weak position, we need to do what we can.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 06:40 PM   #7
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
The whole notion of SS benefits being sacrosanct is why I refused to renew my membership in AARP last November. Their answer only seems to be to raise SS taxes because according to them their surveys tell them that's what people want. Bull-youknowwhat. I think the solution needs to allow all options to be on the table, not just increasing taxes.
Agree. I've recently noticed an ad blitz on some news/talk radio stations from AARP, preaching how going to the chained CPI would devastate seniors.

Changes are going to have to be made, and the chained CPI is the least of many evils. AARP is compounding COLA changes over who knows how many years, and coming up with some astronomical dollar amount in an attempt to scare people. If you crunch the numbers, the difference between the current CPI and the chained, is less than $10 a month for the average SS payment. I suppose someone retiring with the max SS benefit, and living to 100 years old, could come up with a total COLA loss approaching AARP's claim.
__________________
ACC USN-(Ret)
BLS53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 06:58 PM   #8
Recycles dryer sheets
Stanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 194
The current interest rate environment has resulted in a huge transfer of wealth from savers (called old people) to borrowers (called young people). These things work both ways.
__________________
Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:00 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
heeyy_joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madeira Beach Fl
Posts: 1,403
I think AARP is a valuable lobby for retired persons. As such, their positions help begin a starting point for negotiations, much the same way the NRA lobby does the same for the 2nd amendment.

As for a social security solution, I expect that a blended solution will eventually be enacted - raising the cap on earnings, chain CPI, a very modest 25bpts split between employer/employee, and a raise in the retirement age ranging from 1 month up to 2 years depending on your year of birth. Nobody will be happy yet both political parties will claim victory.
__________________
_______________________________________________
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do" --Bob Dylan.
heeyy_joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:04 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by heeyy_joe View Post
I think AARP is a valuable lobby for retired persons. As such, their positions help begin a starting point for negotiations, much the same way the NRA lobby does the same for the 2nd amendment.

As for a social security solution, I expect that a blended solution will eventually be enacted - raising the cap on earnings, chain CPI, a very modest 25bpts split between employer/employee, and a raise in the retirement age ranging from 1 month up to 2 years depending on your year of birth. Nobody will be happy yet both political parties will claim victory.
Those solutions seem to be a sensible place to start discussions to me, but each side is so entrenched I don't have much hope that something sensible like you outline would actually be enacted. Unfortunately IMO the politicians lack the courage to try to do the right thing for the country and most of the people. I hope that I am wrong.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:06 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
The current interest rate environment has resulted in a huge transfer of wealth from savers (called old people) to borrowers (called young people). These things work both ways.
Interesting point. We conservative oldsters are funding those 3% mortgages that didn't exist in our days. As to the primary argument, it is pretty obvious that some changes are going to be made to Medicare - chained CPI at the least, but probably more cuts. What is preventing that from happening immediately is a simple concession that those cuts must be accompanied by a bit more revenues (i.e. taxes) to balance the pain. We will eventually get there.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:33 PM   #12
Full time employment: Posting here.
HawkeyeNFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside the Beltway
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
The current interest rate environment has resulted in a huge transfer of wealth from savers (called old people) to borrowers (called young people). These things work both ways.
Not necessarily. Depends where you park your savings, and also what you do with your borrowed money.
__________________
HawkeyeNFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:36 PM   #13
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 138
I joined AARP for the benefits; not their politics. The two periodicals are a nice addition too. When they send me a survey; I fill it in the opposite of how they want. When they send an email; I reply with the reverse of what they want.

AARP isn't as much a lobbyist for seniors as they are probably the largest insurance broker in the world.

Marc
__________________
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:37 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Huston55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 1,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by heeyy_joe View Post
As for a social security solution, I expect that a blended solution will eventually be enacted - raising the cap on earnings, chain CPI, a very modest 25bpts split between employer/employee, and a raise in the retirement age ranging from 1 month up to 2 years depending on your year of birth. Nobody will be happy yet both political parties will claim victory.
I agree that a blended and gradually implemented solution is the optimum approach. I'd like to think that it's also likely but, logic and rational thought don't seem to drive much of what happens in DC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
Those solutions seem to be a sensible place to start discussions to me, but each side is so entrenched I don't have much hope that something sensible like you outline would actually be enacted. Unfortunately IMO the politicians lack the courage to try to do the right thing for the country and most of the people. I hope that I am wrong.
Unfortunately, I think you're right (see above).
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
Huston55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
photoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
The current interest rate environment has resulted in a huge transfer of wealth from savers (called old people) to borrowers (called young people). These things work both ways.
It's not clear to me that young people benefit from low interest rates. The major areas where they take on debt would be housing & student loans, but the low interest rates may have just fueled higher prices.
__________________
photoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 08:03 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc View Post

AARP isn't as much a lobbyist for seniors as they are probably the largest insurance broker in the world.
+1

For better understand of most issues, just follow the money
__________________
ERhoosier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 08:20 PM   #17
Recycles dryer sheets
chasesfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
The whole notion of SS benefits being sacrosanct is why I refused to renew my membership in AARP last November. Their answer only seems to be to raise SS taxes because according to them their surveys tell them that's what people want. Bull-youknowwhat. I think the solution needs to allow all options to be on the table, not just increasing taxes.
Isn't that the answer for every interest group? Vote and protect your benefits while asking someone else to pay for it.
__________________
chasesfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 08:27 PM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
chasesfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeNFO View Post

Not necessarily. Depends where you park your savings, and also what you do with your borrowed money.
+1.

There is a wealth transfer, but you forgot the government is playing intermediary. The Federal Reserve buys $86bil in government issued debt a moth, artificially keeping long term rates low. They then price-fix short term lending rates. The only place for savers is assets that benefit from excess liquidity, like stocks and income producing real estate.

The government has also created substantial excess capacity in the banking industry keeping rates low for borrowers. The government now issues almost all mortgage and student loan debt, while requiring banks to keep more capital than they can deploy.


It's a tangled web that I'm not sure can be unwound easily. We are robbing our conservative elderly savers and forcing them to take risk.
__________________
chasesfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 09:04 AM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasesfish View Post
+1.

There is a wealth transfer, but you forgot the government is playing intermediary. The Federal Reserve buys $86bil in government issued debt a moth, artificially keeping long term rates low. They then price-fix short term lending rates. The only place for savers is assets that benefit from excess liquidity, like stocks and income producing real estate.

The government has also created substantial excess capacity in the banking industry keeping rates low for borrowers. The government now issues almost all mortgage and student loan debt, while requiring banks to keep more capital than they can deploy.


It's a tangled web that I'm not sure can be unwound easily. We are robbing our conservative elderly savers and forcing them to take risk.
Good points. Raising interest rates by whatever means isn't purely beneficial to elderly/savers either, it's not that simple. Higher interest rates have a downside for the economy, and the elderly aren't immune that outcome. Tangled web is right...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 09:16 AM   #20
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 90
Maybe There Is Hope? in [Market-Ticker]

Quote:
Now if we can just get the people to focus on the medical issue like a laser, and take the entire industry, place it in the middle of the road, run it over with a bus and then back up and make damn sure you got it with the tires at least twice we could solve this problem.
I mean literally solve the budget problem.
For real.
Permanently.
That this is not the issue in both House and Senate is a national disgrace.
__________________

__________________
robls is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:22 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.