Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-30-2008, 01:55 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming View Post
I have been gritting my teeth reading thru the responses to this post. Never have I seen such a Nippon love-fest. We do still have a domestic auto industry folks, and they are turning out a decent product. Donít just take my word for it- go look !


I've looked, bought several, and PAID a heavy price to "buy American". I now own two Hondas, the FIRST import cars I have bought since 1986........ Know what?, I haven't had any "mysterious" $500-$1000 repairs..........

Quote:
The big three are struggling, no doubt Ė some of it self-inflicted, but the biggest problem is subsidized imports.

No, the Big Three decided that the American people were stupid, would buy a subpar product forever, buy a new one every three years on some perceived sense of loyalty, and life would carry on.

Quote:
The loss of well-paying manufacturing jobs (auto, supply chain, steel, engineering, etc.) is a serious threat to our long term economic well-being. Manufacturing is what built the US economy. (look at what is going on in China, Mexico, India, etc today) I have traveled extensively around the world selling specialized manufacturing machinery, and have observed first-hand how desperate developing countries are to get their products into our market, while simultaneously shielding their domestic market from US imports. Our open-door trade policies are too one-sided, and are eroding the backbone of our long-term economic well-being.


That could very well be, but from what I understand, the US STILL is the big dog for highly specialized manufactured goods. When is comes to high tolerance, highly complicated manufacturing processes, China, India, Pakistan and Korea can't compete. Granted, the cheap stuff is made overseas, but it's not like there's a bunch of 10-ton gears made in China that Harley-Davidson or GE is going to put in their plants.........

Quote:
I realize that the Japanese automakers are now ďbuildingĒ cars here- but only to appease the uninformed consumer-primarily with imported parts manufactured in low-cost labor markets. Pouring our hard-earned money into the Japanese (or Korean or Chinese) auto economy isnít doing a damn thing to help grow the US economy, fund our ever-increasing social programs, or ensure your retirement benefits will be viable over your lifetime.


Fact remains, those cars ARE more reliable than the American cars. I'll give you that EARLY results from the Ford Fusion and Chevy Malibu look promising, but Honda and Toyota BUILT their market share through fuel efficient small cars, and it will be difficult to fight back.......

Quote:
Until the US consumer wakes up and realizes we need to support our own manufacturing economy first, they better hope that Honda and Toyota are going to step in and take care of their kids retirement programs- because an economy based on us selling hamburgers to one another isnít sustainable over time.


Tell me HOW it's Toyota and Honda's fault that The Big Threee committed themselves to unsustainable benefit programs for their workers?? :confused:

Quote:
You canít evaluate a new car purchase strictly with your computer- go test drive a new Chevy, Ford, or Dodge product. Objectively compare it with the imports. You will be surprised how far the US automakers have come- The new Malibu is a case in point-competition is a good thing- buy something with an extended warranty if that gives you sense of financial security. There are some tremendous deals to be had right now- as in rebates, 0% financing, etc. Quit listening to 10 year-old rhetoric from your latte-slurping liberal yuppie neighbors about how they will never buy a US car, blah-blah, blah.
Quote:
Gee, that poor old Cavalier only lasted 15 yearsÖ And I venture to say that many of the people driving imports havenít objectively compared a US-made product recently.


I have, and chose the used Hondas anyway. If you think the Dodge Caliber is a world class car, you've been hitting the bottle a little early........
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-30-2008, 02:00 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
If you think the Dodge Caliber is a world class car, you've been hitting the bottle a little early........
I think that goes for any "Crapler" product these days...
__________________

__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:11 PM   #43
Moderator Emeritus
CuppaJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,866
A friend bought a used rental car when she retired. She brought her mechanic to check it out before buying and has been really happy with it for about three years now.
__________________
CuppaJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:13 PM   #44
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Can you explain to me why it is important that the US is the leader in manufacturing all products?
If you aren't the lead dog the view is always the same... Our service economy is stagnant while the expanding economies around the globe are all investing heavily in manufacturing.

Is it ok to have computers or t-shirts made abroad as long as cars are made domestically? I didn't differentiate- I am an advocate of strong (not exclusive ) domestic manufacturing of all products.

Why is the car industry special? It isn't- the same principle applies to every sector of the manufacturing industry. As for your T-shirt/computer question, we no longer have a textile industry or much of a domestic computer manufacturing industry, either. Containerized shipping and cheap offshore labor have just about killed the US furniture industry- along with a lot of other value- added products.

The way I see it, I purchase the goods that are good quality and competitively priced, and I don't worry where the company that makes them is located. You had better worry, when your grandkids can't find decent paying jobs and are flipping burgers or stocking store shelves with cheap imported products at minimum wage. You should be concerned when your neighbor loses his job and defaults on his mortagage because you and a lot of other peope- "don't worry where the products you buy come from". Who is going to pick up the tab for the myriad of job-failure related social costs?- you and me, my friend, not the companies who are flooding this country with low cost products built with low cost labor in any number of countries. The current mortgage crisis is the tip of the iceberg- what do you think is feeding the affordabilty gap? It shure as he!! isn't high-paying manufacturing jobs. As for US companies moving their manufacturing offshore, it is usually a last-resort matter of survival for labor-intensive manufacturers - $30/hour and $2.50/ mile cannot compete with $30/week and $4000/container no matter how you slice it. Try running FIRECALC with your anticipated retirement savings based on a working lifetime at the wages that many foreign companies are paying their manufacturing workers. Oops- 100% of those cycles will fail...

Currently, the US car industry has very large retirement programs that make it difficult for them to offer the lowest prices. I am sure that there are a lot of retirees (many of them on this board) who are benefitting from these programs, or similar programs in other formerly strong US industries.

I think you'll find the people on this board are very meritocratic, and do not make purchases/investments based on emotional appeals.
Making a concious choice to supprt your country and countrymen is not an "emotional appeal". I see it as social responsibility and patriotism.


I'll "invest in America" when I see products worthy of my money.
Look objectively, instead of listening to the knee-jerk anti-Detroit attitudes that are killing the auto industry. And good luck finding those products, so much of what we buy these days is no longer built in the US- thanks to subsidized imports and the high legacy labor costs that make it possible for many of us to be on this FIRE board.
__________________
Westernskies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:24 PM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming View Post
Can you explain to me why it is important that the US is the leader in manufacturing all products?
If you aren't the lead dog the view is always the same... Our service economy is stagnant while the expanding economies around the globe are all investing heavily in manufacturing.

Is it ok to have computers or t-shirts made abroad as long as cars are made domestically? I didn't differentiate- I am an advocate of strong (not exclusive ) domestic manufacturing of all products.

Why is the car industry special? It isn't- the same principle applies to every sector of the manufacturing industry. As for your T-shirt/computer question, we no longer have a textile industry or much of a domestic computer manufacturing industry, either. Containerized shipping and cheap offshore labor have just about killed the US furniture industry- along with a lot of other value- added products.

The way I see it, I purchase the goods that are good quality and competitively priced, and I don't worry where the company that makes them is located. You had better worry, when your grandkids can't find decent paying jobs and are flipping burgers or stocking store shelves with cheap imported products at minimum wage. You should be concerned when your neighbor loses his job and defaults on his mortagage because you and a lot of other peope- "don't worry where the products you buy come from". Who is going to pick up the tab for the myriad of job-failure related social costs?- you and me, my friend, not the companies who are flooding this country with low cost products built with low cost labor in any number of countries. The current mortgage crisis is the tip of the iceberg- what do you think is feeding the affordabilty gap? It shure as he!! isn't high-paying manufacturing jobs. As for US companies moving their manufacturing offshore, it is usually a last-resort matter of survival for labor-intensive manufacturers - $30/hour and $2.50/ mile cannot compete with $30/week and $4000/container no matter how you slice it. Try running FIRECALC with your anticipated retirement savings based on a working lifetime at the wages that many foreign companies are paying their manufacturing workers. Oops- 100% of those cycles will fail...

Currently, the US car industry has very large retirement programs that make it difficult for them to offer the lowest prices. I am sure that there are a lot of retirees (many of them on this board) who are benefitting from these programs, or similar programs in other formerly strong US industries.

I think you'll find the people on this board are very meritocratic, and do not make purchases/investments based on emotional appeals.
Making a concious choice to supprt your country and countrymen is not an "emotional appeal". I see it as social responsibility and patriotism.


I'll "invest in America" when I see products worthy of my money.
Look objectively, instead of listening to the knee-jerk anti-Detroit attitudes that are killing the auto industry. And good luck finding those products, so much of what we buy these days is no longer built in the US- thanks to subsidized imports and the high legacy labor costs that make it possible for many of us to be on this FIRE board.
I see that you skillfully and artfully avoided responding to my post.........

Questioning one's patriotism based on the car someone chooses to drive is pretty shallow..........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:30 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming View Post
The way I see it, I purchase the goods that are good quality and competitively priced, and I don't worry where the company that makes them is located. You had better worry, when your grandkids can't find decent paying jobs and are flipping burgers or stocking store shelves with cheap imported products at minimum wage. You should be concerned when your neighbor loses his job and defaults on his mortagage because you and a lot of other peope- "don't worry where the products you buy come from". Who is going to pick up the tab for the myriad of job-failure related social costs?- you and me, my friend, not the companies who are flooding this country with low cost products built with low cost labor in any number of countries. The current mortgage crisis is the tip of the iceberg- what do you think is feeding the affordabilty gap? It shure as he!! isn't high-paying manufacturing jobs. As for US companies moving their manufacturing offshore, it is usually a last-resort matter of survival for labor-intensive manufacturers - $30/hour and $2.50/ mile cannot compete with $30/week and $4000/container no matter how you slice it. Try running FIRECALC with your anticipated retirement savings based on a working lifetime at the wages that many foreign companies are paying their manufacturing workers. Oops- 100% of those cycles will fail...
The likelihood that my grandkids will be working in any kind of manufacturing effort is approximately nil. Nor are they terribly likely to be flipping burgers or stocking shelves. Like most Merkins of their day, they will very likely have advanced degrees and specialized skills that will be used to participate in whatever passes for the service economy at that date.

Here's what I don't get about the "Buy Merkin - its your patriotic duty" adttitude: do these people not understand that most manufacturing jobs are relatively low value-added and relatively open to competition around the globe? We shouldn't want to protect inefficient industries or encourage our labor force to cling to low value-added jobs. We should be encouraging growth of our most productive, most competitive industries and helping our labor force constantly upgrade its skills to stay at the peak of the competition in high value added industries.

If you slip into the protectionist cesspool, the protected companies do the same thing they always do: change little if at all, pump up executive compensation, and focus on milking the protection for excess profits and lobbying against efforts to take the protection away. Instead, the best thing to do is open these industries to competition, since it forces the domestic firms to become efficient/productive, or they close and the resources thus employed become freed up to for use in more productive sectors of the economy.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:35 PM   #47
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
FinanceDude, if you took the time to actually read my reply you would see that I was skillfully and artfully responding to a post by Abreutime...
__________________
Westernskies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:39 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
The likelihood that my grandkids will be working in any kind of manufacturing effort is approximately nil. Nor are they terribly likely to be flipping burgers or stocking shelves. Like most Merkins of their day, they will very likely have advanced degrees and specialized skills that will be used to participate in whatever passes for the service economy at that date.

Here's what I don't get about the "Buy Merkin - its your patriotic duty" adttitude: do these people not understand that most manufacturing jobs are relatively low value-added and relatively open to competition around the globe? We shouldn't want to protect inefficient industries or encourage our labor force to cling to low value-added jobs. We should be encouraging growth of our most productive, most competitive industries and helping our labor force constantly upgrade its skills to stay at the peak of the competition in high value added industries.

If you slip into the protectionist cesspool, the protected companies do the same thing they always do: change little if at all, pump up executive compensation, and focus on milking the protection for excess profits and lobbying against efforts to take the protection away. Instead, the best thing to do is open these industries to competition, since it forces the domestic firms to become efficient/productive, or they close and the resources thus employed become freed up to for use in more productive sectors of the economy.
All good points........I think "bigwonderfulwyoming" has drunk too much Kool-Aid to know. Just about everyone has heard of the West Bend Company (pots, pans, griddles, etc.. They are 20 miles up the road from where I live. They closed a number of years ago because Chinese imports were killing them on price. In the end, around 500 $13-$21 an hour jobs were lost. Did it cripple the town? No, West Bend is booming, without the company. The resources were deployed elsewhere.
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:40 PM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming View Post
FinanceDude, if you took the time to actually read my reply you would see that I was skillfully and artfully responding to a post by Abreutime...
Ok.....I'll wait..........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:45 PM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
All good points........I think "bigwonderfulwyoming" has drunk too much Kool-Aid to know. Just about everyone has heard of the West Bend Company (pots, pans, griddles, etc.. They are 20 miles up the road from where I live. They closed a number of years ago because Chinese imports were killing them on price. In the end, around 500 $13-$21 an hour jobs were lost. Did it cripple the town? No, West Bend is booming, without the company. The resources were deployed elsewhere.
Yup. And I hear that the coal and oil industries actively recruit for labor in the rust belt auto states (MI, OH, IN) becaus ethey are desparate for quality labor and they know that many of the people coming out of the auto industry are top notch (just need some training).
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:45 PM   #51
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Is it ok to have computers or t-shirts made abroad as long as cars are made domestically? I didn't differentiate- I am an advocate of strong (not exclusive ) domestic manufacturing of all products.
Good luck with that (look for the "made in China" label on everything except cars, pretty much).
__________________
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:49 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
Good luck with that (look for the "made in China" label on everything except cars, pretty much).
Global supply and demand has spoken.........folks are NOT willing to pay 30-40% more for a US product........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 02:53 PM   #53
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
Questioning one's patriotism based on the car someone chooses to drive is pretty shallow..........
I love and cherish our free country, including the freedom to participate in its capitalist economy. Personally I think it's patriotic for me to follow the free market in choosing my purchases. That's how capitalism works. If I want to buy foreign knock-offs at Big Lots, I can do it. If I want to go to a posh department store or one that advertises "All American", I can do that, too. Enjoying my freedoms makes me feel happy and is not something I should feel bad about!
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 03:11 PM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,675
Want2retire, I think you should run for public office. Well done reply! ...and I was about to unsubscribe from this thread.
__________________
Lsbcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 03:12 PM   #55
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Global supply and demand has spoken.........folks are NOT willing to pay 30-40% more for a US product........
More importantly, maybe, corporations (in which we invest for our retirement) are bound to their investors to enhance the bottom line--manufacturing products in China generally produces a greater profit.

Back to the OP re retirement cars, sort of . We owned two Dodge Caravans when we were in the market for that kind of car (Chrysler and its shareholders were well-rewarded for finding and developing this market. Our two cars didn't have a stellar record but were good enough). Pick-up trucks seem to be mostly American-made or at least American-labelled. For our retirement car we will probably go to an American-labelled car, since our small-town destination is 50 miles away from a non-American-car dealer and we'll want to buy the car in the town as well as having it serviced there. DH would love a pick-up truck. Mileage won't be an issue.
__________________
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 03:18 PM   #56
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Which is more 'American'?

A Honda built in Ohio, or a Chevy built in Mexico?

I like small efficient cars; if The Big Three want me to buy their cars, they should build small, efficient cars.

My previous car was a Ford Festiva (a Mazda built in Korea), it lasted 18 years; was it 'American' or 'foreign'?
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 03:19 PM   #57
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
OK here goes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming
I have been gritting my teeth reading thru the responses to this post. Never have I seen such a Nippon love-fest. We do still have a domestic auto industry folks, and they are turning out a decent product. Don’t just take my word for it- go look !



I've looked, bought several, and PAID a heavy price to "buy American". I now own two Hondas, the FIRST import cars I have bought since 1986........ Know what?, I haven't had any "mysterious" $500-$1000 repairs..........

I haven't had any mysterious repairs on the domestic cars I have owned, either. Just routine maintenance. And there is no doubt the Americans are producing better quality cars than they were a few years ago.



Quote:
The big three are struggling, no doubt – some of it self-inflicted, but the biggest problem is subsidized imports.

No, the Big Three decided that the American people were stupid, would buy a subpar product forever, buy a new one every three years on some perceived sense of loyalty, and life would carry on.

Interesting opinion, but I respectfully disagree. I don't think that most American companies perceive their customers as stupid people. I don't know what the anticipated replacement lifecycle is in the auto industry , but I bet it is a lot longer than 3 years.



Quote:
The loss of well-paying manufacturing jobs (auto, supply chain, steel, engineering, etc.) is a serious threat to our long term economic well-being. Manufacturing is what built the US economy. (look at what is going on in China, Mexico, India, etc today) I have traveled extensively around the world selling specialized manufacturing machinery, and have observed first-hand how desperate developing countries are to get their products into our market, while simultaneously shielding their domestic market from US imports. Our open-door trade policies are too one-sided, and are eroding the backbone of our long-term economic well-being.


That could very well be, but from what I understand, the US STILL is the big dog for highly specialized manufactured goods. When is comes to high tolerance, highly complicated manufacturing processes, China, India, Pakistan and Korea can't compete. Granted, the cheap stuff is made overseas, but it's not like there's a bunch of 10-ton gears made in China that Harley-Davidson or GE is going to put in their plants.........

I am in a "high tolerance, highly complicated" specialty machinery manufacturing business- and we are starting to see imports from Asia coming into this country- with absolutely no respect for intellectual property, finished part quality, or service- just knockoffs at lower prices. In some case they are offering completed products for less money than I can purchase the raw materials. Sure looks like the proverbial turtle on a fencepost to me.



Quote:
I realize that the Japanese automakers are now “building” cars here- but only to appease the uninformed consumer-primarily with imported parts manufactured in low-cost labor markets. Pouring our hard-earned money into the Japanese (or Korean or Chinese) auto economy isn’t doing a damn thing to help grow the US economy, fund our ever-increasing social programs, or ensure your retirement benefits will be viable over your lifetime.


Fact remains, those cars ARE more reliable than the American cars. I'll give you that EARLY results from the Ford Fusion and Chevy Malibu look promising, but Honda and Toyota BUILT their market share through fuel efficient small cars, and it will be difficult to fight back.......

Fact is that American cars are getting better.

Fact is that Honda, Toyota and Nissan all jumped into offering bigger vehicles- ie SUV's and trucks, which is what the American consumers demanded when gas was cheap.

I will agree with you that it will be difficult for the American manufacturers to to fight back- especially with high legacy costs and $30/hr labor.


Quote:
Until the US consumer wakes up and realizes we need to support our own manufacturing economy first, they better hope that Honda and Toyota are going to step in and take care of their kids retirement programs- because an economy based on us selling hamburgers to one another isn’t sustainable over time.


Tell me HOW it's Toyota and Honda's fault that The Big Threee committed themselves to unsustainable benefit programs for their workers?? :confused:

I would respectfully ask those retired UAW workers on this board to answer that question. Also, anyone on this board have any idea what kind of lucrative retirement programs the foreign manufacturers who are building cars here in the US are offering American workers? Surely they are exactly the same as the Big Three, or the UAW and American public would be outraged...


Quote:
You can’t evaluate a new car purchase strictly with your computer- go test drive a new Chevy, Ford, or Dodge product. Objectively compare it with the imports. You will be surprised how far the US automakers have come- The new Malibu is a case in point-competition is a good thing- buy something with an extended warranty if that gives you sense of financial security. There are some tremendous deals to be had right now- as in rebates, 0% financing, etc. Quit listening to 10 year-old rhetoric from your latte-slurping liberal yuppie neighbors about how they will never buy a US car, blah-blah, blah.
Quote:
Gee, that poor old Cavalier only lasted 15 years… And I venture to say that many of the people driving imports haven’t objectively compared a US-made product recently.


I have, and chose the used Hondas anyway. If you think the Dodge Caliber is a world class car, you've been hitting the bottle a little early........


At least the damn Hondas were USED. Good call on that. I never mentioned the Dodge Caliber. Someone else is trying to put those words in my mouth. No actually, I am a teetotaler...I think this way stone cold sober...


Questioning one's patriotism based on the car someone chooses to drive is pretty shallow..........

I never questioned anyone's patriotism- just expressing my own unwavering support for the good old USA- and hoping that a lot of other people will consider the effect their purchasing decisons have on our economy, our neighbors, and each other. . . whether they are purchasing cars, t-shirts, or computers.


Mark Twain:
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may.

Think globally, buy locally.



Hope this sklllfully and artfully answers your questions. If you respond, please turn off all the different smiley faces- they make it appear that you have multiple personalities...
__________________
Westernskies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 03:45 PM   #58
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
Which is more 'American'?

A Honda built in Ohio, or a Chevy built in Mexico?

I like small efficient cars; if The Big Three want me to buy their cars, they should build small, efficient cars.

My previous car was a Ford Festiva (a Mazda built in Korea), it lasted 18 years; was it 'American' or 'foreign'?
Lucky you! We bought the opposite car (a "foreign" car built in Kenosha) with horrible results in the mid-80s--the Renault Alliance, built by AMC. From Wikipedia: "The 1986 Consumer Reports "Annual Auto Issue" surveyed owners after five years of ownership. The 1983 Renault Alliance scored in worst ratings in "Engine", "Clutch", "Driveline", "Engine cooling", "Suspension", "Exhaust system", "Automatic transmission" and "Manual transmission" ratings." (It would have scored last in "stalling while driving on the Interstate" too.)
__________________
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 04:03 PM   #59
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
Which is more 'American'?

A Honda built in Ohio, or a Chevy built in Mexico?
IMHO, I look where the "profit" is sent.

A Volvo S60, S80, etc is built in Sweden but the profit goes to Ford (U.S. Company).

For Sabb, the same thing. Profit goes back to G.M. in the U.S.

My Mustang was built in Mexico. Profit to Ford in the U.S.

How about heavy trucks? Mack was U.S. owned many years ago. In the '90's, profits went back to France. In the 2000's they go to Sweden (Owned by Volvo AB - not to be confused with Ford's ownership of the "car side").

Where vehicles are built, they provide local jobs and help support the local economy. However, profits (and impacts to your ownership via an ADR for foreign company's) and the price you pay for a new vehicle do matter (does not apply for used vehicles).

Honda America is "owned" by a foreign country. Your purchase of a new car/truck represents "profit" being sent to a country other than the U.S.

Does it bother you? Only you can answer that question.

- Ron
__________________
rs0460a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2008, 04:07 PM   #60
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbcal View Post
Want2retire, I think you should run for public office. Well done reply! ...and I was about to unsubscribe from this thread.
Aw, thanks! What a nice compliment. I really do love my country, and although I'm not cut out for politics maybe after ER I could volunteer to work at polling places or some such thing.
__________________

__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
post retirement expenses ie cars davemcmullen FIRECalc support 4 03-13-2008 11:05 PM
Why are cars booted? S Other topics 7 04-18-2007 11:59 AM
Cars in ER education Other topics 85 10-25-2005 02:46 PM
CARS! yakers Other topics 23 01-07-2005 09:20 AM
Cars steve mcgarret FIRE and Money 49 10-18-2004 06:53 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:16 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.