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Old 08-25-2008, 04:57 AM   #61
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He could still live there but he required help with the most basic living skills. He also wouldn't admit he couldn't do things even when he had just not been able to do it. At a certain point the parent-child relationship reverses and the longer someone delays doing what needs to be done the more damage occurs.
Sorry you are going through that.

It is a dreadful and difficult disease. Perhaps worse on the caregiver than the person with the disease.

If you have not read about the stages of the disease, I would suggest you do so. It is worth the effort.

One trap that you cannot fall into is trying to reason with someone that is incapable of being reasonable. Hopefully you have Power of attorney for health and finance. Or you will need to step in and get guardianship if you have not done so already (you will need to get a lawyer and go to court).
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:10 AM   #62
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Sorry you are going through that.

It is a dreadful and difficult disease. Perhaps worse on the caregiver than the person with the disease.

If you have not read about the stages of the disease, I would suggest you do so. It is worth the effort.

One trap that you cannot fall into is trying to reason with someone that is incapable of being reasonable. Hopefully you have Power of attorney for health and finance. Or you will need to step in and get guardianship if you have not done so already (you will need to get a lawyer and go to court).
After my father died, the value of having the right paperwork became real obvious to me. My father had it all done perfectly with medical POA, regular POA, will, etc. The only mistake is that he put all of his assets into a high fee variable annuity so he could qualify for a Medicaid nursing home if he lived beyond his LTC insurance limit.

DW inquired about her parents at my urging. They had absolutely nothing and didn't see why they would need anything. About 2 years of pestering finally got them to get things done properly. Within 2 years of getting this done, MIL fell and broke her hip. She had Parkinsons and the walker made her look old. After about a year of her in a nursing home, FIL got diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Having the paperwork is really saving our butts.

I know way too much about Alzheimer's and other forms of senior dementia. I hope to die well before anything like these set in on me.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:07 PM   #63
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The only mistake is that he put all of his assets into a high fee variable annuity so he could qualify for a Medicaid nursing home if he lived beyond his LTC insurance limit.
Investing assets to "hide" them in order to qualify for Medicaid seems to frequently turn out to be a mistake. The "hiding places" (such as the variable annuity you mention) are often inferior investments and the investor often receives far inferior care while on Medicaid than private pay patients receive.

I'm sure someone will have an anecdotal example where an elderly person with significant assets successfully had Medicaid pay for nursing care, received great care in a nice facility, got great investment returns and passed the money on to a deserving, grateful child. My observations are that either the care was inferior, the investment stunk or the child didn't want or deserve the inheritance, or some combination.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:09 PM   #64
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Sorry you are going through that.

It is a dreadful and difficult disease. Perhaps worse on the caregiver than the person with the disease.

If you have not read about the stages of the disease, I would suggest you do so. It is worth the effort.

One trap that you cannot fall into is trying to reason with someone that is incapable of being reasonable. Hopefully you have Power of attorney for health and finance. Or you will need to step in and get guardianship if you have not done so already (you will need to get a lawyer and go to court).
I second (all of) the above.
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:32 PM   #65
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Investing assets to "hide" them in order to qualify for Medicaid seems to frequently turn out to be a mistake. The "hiding places" (such as the variable annuity you mention) are often inferior investments and the investor often receives far inferior care while on Medicaid than private pay patients receive.
Which is why most states do a "look-back" of 5 years today instead of the 2 years they used to do.

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I'm sure someone will have an anecdotal example where an elderly person with significant assets successfully had Medicaid pay for nursing care, received great care in a nice facility, got great investment returns and passed the money on to a deserving, grateful child.
It's about as likely as winning the lottery. My FIL was a brittle diabetic and had dementia. He spent the last 20 years of his life is a combination of assisted living and nursing homes. Medicaid MADE him MOVE 5 times in that time period, which was traumatic on him and us as well...........
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:45 PM   #66
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Investing assets to "hide" them in order to qualify for Medicaid seems to frequently turn out to be a mistake. The "hiding places" (such as the variable annuity you mention) are often inferior investments and the investor often receives far inferior care while on Medicaid than private pay patients receive.

I'm sure someone will have an anecdotal example where an elderly person with significant assets successfully had Medicaid pay for nursing care, received great care in a nice facility, got great investment returns and passed the money on to a deserving, grateful child. My observations are that either the care was inferior, the investment stunk or the child didn't want or deserve the inheritance, or some combination.
Oh, and then there's that little issue of fraudulently claiming to be destitute when you really have assets in order to go on welfare (Medicaid).

It's amazing to me that so many people don't have any problem thinking about doing this when they are outraged at people cheating at the more conventional welfare "game." Plenty of these same people also are adamantly against any kind of government managed healthcare system.

It's a weird and aggravating phenomenon. There's a real lack of integrity in our society.
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Old 08-26-2008, 04:39 AM   #67
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There are a number of legal strategies to protect assets and be eligible for Medicaid. State increased the look back period recently increased to try to combat it.

There are two parties that might seek protection... Surviving Spouse and other potential heirs.

In the surviving spouse situation, I believe it is perfectly acceptable to use legitimate and legal means to protect assets. Most states have provisions for the spouse... but they are not all equal some states leave the survivor with the house and a small amount of assets plus a low income... others allow the assets to be split.

IMHO - If a couple does not have LTC Insurance or a substantial amount of assets... they better to plan for this situation in some way. It is one of the most likely scenarios that will leave the survivor in bad financial shape. If it is legal... and it protects one... do it. Better than being left in poverty. The average time spent in a nursing home is a few years... every once in a while it is 5, 7 or longer.

For example say you live in a state that splits the assets and limits the income of the survivor. They both draw SS. They have combined assets of $500k. Both are age 67. The husband has a stroke and off to the NH. The wife now has to spend down to the Medicaid level. So she has to spend down $250k. He lives for 4 years ( x $80k year). That is approx 320k. in year 4 he qualifies for Medicaid. However, the state will require his pension to be and SS... they will pay the rest. DW is left with her SS and her $250 + house. Now the husband dies. She has SS (lets say that is 16k). Plus she can use 4% of the $250k which is $10k. She will need to be able to survive on $26k. She might be able to do that... but it is less than the $36k per year (40% more) she could have had. And that is the good scenario. Some states have near draconian rules for the survivor.

One consideration all should investigate are the rules for their state. The survivor might be better off relocating to a different state.

Children using those scenarios and putting the parent in a nursing home smells a bit.
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