View Poll Results: What is your annual retirement income?
|
10K to 25K
|
|
10 |
5.08% |
25K to 50K
|
|
28 |
14.21% |
50K to 75K
|
|
29 |
14.72% |
75K to 100K
|
|
53 |
26.90% |
100K to 150K
|
|
47 |
23.86% |
150K to 200K
|
|
8 |
4.06% |
Over 200K
|
|
22 |
11.17% |
|
|
05-22-2016, 09:39 PM
|
#101
|
gone traveling
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,135
|
Interesting poll results
Age certainly matters-- how do I count or value SS that's 20 years out ?
Withdrawals are not income. They are simply uses of prior income.
Perhaps a better way to ask the question :
1. How much do you add to your net worth annually, and how much do you draw down from that net annually to pay expenses,donate.
Or
2. What economic value add do you generate and/or collect (from govt, pension, annuity, dividend, interest, side hustle retirement job, rental property income annually.
Reference the $40k spending -- I would also guess 50% of currently retired households live on little more than their social security incomes. Which is likely below 40k for a couple.
Another 20-25% live on SS plus a guaranteed pension income. Likely puts them in the 50-75K range
I suspect fewer than 25% of today's retired people are above 75k in household income even when relying on SS, Pension, and substantial personal savings (taxable and tax deferred account withdrawals) as their sources of income.
I think fewer than 5% are retired without the stable sources of income from SS & Pension and just living on portfolio and/or passive income streams like dividend, interest, rental property.
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
05-22-2016, 10:33 PM
|
#102
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
People may be thinking that they can cut down to $40K if they need to, but they are in fact spending much more.
Is that wishful thinking? We do not really know unless the market takes another dump and loses 50% as it did in 2009, but I think they can. When there's no money but only $40K/year, people will figure out a way.
|
According to the Pension Rights Center, median household income for retirees in 2014 was $36,895, so many retiree households have to figure out how to live on less than $40K.
Income of Today's Older Adults | Pension Rights Center
Median income from financial assets in 2014 was $1.7K.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
|
|
|
05-22-2016, 11:23 PM
|
#103
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
|
OK, there we go. A lot of people are living on under $40K. That level would be a raise to them.
If other people can live on less, so can anybody here when faced with the situation. It's not the end of the world, but merely the end of travel, fancy cars, big homes, eating out, etc...
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 01:06 AM
|
#104
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 4,342
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
A lot of people are living on under $40K. That level would be a raise to them.
|
We are, and it sure would be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
If other people can live on less, so can anybody here when faced with the situation. It's not the end of the world, but merely the end of travel, fancy cars, big homes, eating out, etc...
|
I don't travel much, don't own a car of any description - let alone a fancy one, and my idea of eating out is a $10 burrito. Once every few months, I'll go somewhere a bit nicer, and spend a little more. I was spending more before retiring, and do expect my income to go up in a few years. When that happens, I'll happily increase the travel and eating out activities to fit the new budget.
One adjusts one's activities to fit whatever budget is available. It's easily done.
__________________
Contentedly ER, with 3 furry friends (now, sadly, 1).
Planning my escape to the wide open spaces in my campervan (with my remaining kitty, of course!)
On a mission to become the world's second most boring man.
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 05:01 AM
|
#105
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,363
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom
...One adjusts one's activities to fit whatever budget is available. It's easily done.
|
That is what I told DS at dinner yesterday. He is working and earning perhaps $20k a year but is sharing a cheap apartment with someone, has a paid-for car and a modest lifestyle (occasional movies, once a year modest vacation) and is still able to save some.
Not the life I would choose or wanted for him but to each his own.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 07:14 AM
|
#106
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 7,677
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by papadad111
Withdrawals are not income. They are simply uses of prior income.
|
That would apply to annuity payments and pension payment too.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 07:18 AM
|
#107
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,189
|
not really , pensions are pay checks that never ended . annuity's are buying a pension . yeah many pensions are contributory but the amount you are guaranteed to receive is generally limited to your lifetime and possibly a spouse .
it is not your money until you recieve the income from that pay check you bought .
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 07:22 AM
|
#108
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,393
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom
One adjusts one's activities to fit whatever budget is available. It's easily done.
|
Agree. And some people are lucky that they actually can increase their spending to match available funding.
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 11:37 AM
|
#109
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
|
We really never track income on our long term plans. Because of the ACA, we decide what AGI we need at the beginning of the year to stay under the cliff and then as Captain Picard would say, make it so.
What we track long term are cash flow and net worth.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 11:56 AM
|
#110
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 7,677
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
not really , pensions are pay checks that never ended . annuity's are buying a pension . yeah many pensions are contributory but the amount you are guaranteed to receive is generally limited to your lifetime and possibly a spouse .
it is not your money until you recieve the income from that pay check you bought .
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh
That's easy. I just used my taxable income.
|
There appears to be a disconnect between these two viewpoints. I agree with the taxable income approach.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 12:55 PM
|
#111
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Syracuse
Posts: 3,502
|
Dang. I'm the poor cousin in this family. I'll be shuffling on back to my shack on the Tobacco Road now.
__________________
“No, not rich. I am a poor man with money, which is not the same thing"
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 02:19 PM
|
#112
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 9,343
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
not really , pensions are pay checks that never ended . annuity's are buying a pension . yeah many pensions are contributory but the amount you are guaranteed to receive is generally limited to your lifetime and possibly a spouse .
it is not your money until you recieve the income from that pay check you bought .
|
I am a simpleton so I think this way. .... My form says I paid over $15,000 this past year in "Federal Income Tax Withheld". So therefore my pension is income if "income tax" is being withheld.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 02:35 PM
|
#113
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmar
Agree. And some people are lucky that they actually can increase their spending to match available funding.
|
Pardon me, but I think luck is when your available funding increases.
I am still waiting for mine. I promise that I would increase my spending. Just upgrading my airplane seats would take care of mucho additional funding.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 04:55 PM
|
#114
|
Gone but not forgotten
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Peru
Posts: 6,335
|
After enjoying the back and forth, I'd suggest that the OP was clearly stated and IMHO correct, re the home value as an income inclusion.
While we currently live in a regular home we may, at any time, trade it for living in our CCRC's apartments or if health determined, into assisted living. . Whether we rent or sell where we are now, the "income" would effectively be the same.
To say other wise, would be the equivalent of suggesting that a person who owns a Picasso worth 20 million dollars might be in the lowest quintile if in fact he was living on social security.
I would assume that we have polls to make some logical sense of... in this case, value.
...........................
In a way, it goes back to the point that comes up on a regular basis... Is the home a part of one's net worth? If it is not... then prithee tell where does that amount belong? Of course for some calculations the value is excluded, but isn't that a matter of selective choice? As if to say that because you live in a $1 million home, you can't count it as "net worth" because you have to have "someplace to live".
I suppose this discussion will go on forever.
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 08:01 PM
|
#115
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcowan
There appears to be a disconnect between these two viewpoints. I agree with the taxable income approach.
|
Some of our taxable income for last year was withdrawals from tax deferred retirement accounts, created from contributions of earned income in prior years.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
|
|
|
05-23-2016, 08:37 PM
|
#116
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 4,032
|
What I understand is the time is now, not 10 years ago, not in the future. So the income I receive this year, 2016. I think there has to be a time bound to make sense. Five years from now, my income would be higher for sure. But I don't know that with 100% certainty.
To be honest, I stole the last part from Legally Blond movie.
|
|
|
05-24-2016, 05:21 AM
|
#117
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,363
|
Good point.... as ER we are currently living on earnings (and in bad years principal) from our nestegg.. but when I start my pension and we start SS then our "retirement income" will increase. I responded based on what it is today (interest, dividends and an average of appreciation).
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
|
|
|
05-24-2016, 07:01 AM
|
#118
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,393
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
Pardon me, but I think luck is when your available funding increases.
I am still waiting for mine. I promise that I would increase my spending. Just upgrading my airplane seats would take care of mucho additional funding.
|
I was thinking about the realization that funding was higher than current spending. When I retired my divs and pensions were higher than spending prior to retirement. Since then, my divs have increased by almost 100% (10years) somehow, I manage to find ways to spend this. Obviously not common or representative.
|
|
|
05-24-2016, 08:00 AM
|
#119
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,024
|
So, maybe I've had too much coffee this morning, but I've been thinking some more about this "income" measurement issue. Some people advocate the familiar tax definition, and that's fine. But due to certain issues like Roth conversions, municipal interest, non-taxed SS, etc., it's not very comparable or meaningful in some cases, relative to the intent of the poll. It also excludes items like dividends in tax-deferred accounts, which OP and others define as "income."
Others seem to favor some version of a more comprehensive economic definition, which at the extreme, would be what papadad described, essentially: income = consumption +/- change in net worth...
Quote:
Originally Posted by papadad111
... Perhaps a better way to ask the question :
1. How much do you add to your net worth annually, and how much do you draw down from that net annually to pay
expenses,donate...
|
This describes the Haig-Simons definition of economic income for individuals. However, after re-reading the thread, there seems to be an endless variety of opinions as to which items inside net worth should be included or excluded... home value, unrealized CGs, etc... similar to the never-ending debate about how to define net worth. So while that approach has merit, it seems like a dead end in terms of reaching any form of consensus.
Then, on top of all that, there's the timing issue that several people refererenced. Some people are early in retirement with no SS or pensions yet. So they are consuming principal early on, with more "income" to come later. Other timing issues were discussed as well. So, current year "income" (however defined) may not be very representative of a retirees overall spending power.
So I started thinking, perhaps a better measurement is simply: whatever FIRECalc says you can spend at 95% success rate. For many, this should be fairly close to actual expenses (and as a practical matter, that's probably the simplest way to conduct these polls). But if you are over or under-spending relative to funding capability, this FIRECalc figure would capture that. This also takes care of the timing issue and provides a reasonable and comparable measure of "spending capacity" rather than "retirement income," which seems to be an elusive concept.
Just my 2 cents.
__________________
Retired at 52 in July 2013. On to better things...
AA: 85/15 WR: 2.7% SI: 2 pensions, SS later
|
|
|
05-24-2016, 08:20 AM
|
#120
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,393
|
@cobra: I think your idea has considerable merit. Would ignore personal use real estate which is probably best. In my case firecalc@95% is very close to my actual divs.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|